To not quite know how to plan my future?

[Futureplans]

This might be long sorry, to get all the info in?

I have 2 adult children currently living with me, we live in the South East, within about 20-25 mins of central London (popular commuter area). I own our house outright although I do need to account to their dad (my Ex) for his share at some point.

My partner of several years lives in another part of the UK, quite rural, much cheaper housewise but a v desirable place to live.

I'd like to move to live with him but I worry about leaving my children. They cannot afford to move out as one is unemployed and the other earns less than 20k. As a guide round here an average 3 bed house is about 400k or more. Renting a 1 bed flat is 1k a month. I don't think either of them will want to move out of the area to live with me.

The options as I see it for our house are sell or rent. If I sell it, I can give some money to my children but I couldn't afford to buy them somewhere outright and have money to rehouse myself once I've paid their dad off. I could give them 100-150k each but on a salary of 20k they couldn't buy anywhere.

If I rent it out, they still have to find somewhere to live and again would struggle to afford it without me.

The other option I've thought of is I rent the house to them. We have 5-6 bedrooms so they could get another 3 friends to move in and share the costs. This would be easier for them, would it be a good idea?

The other issue is my OH doesn't want to buy property. His money is tied up in his business, and he's happy renting a small house. I'd prefer to live somewhere bigger, and to buy.if I did buy, I'd have to buy it alone as he has no cash to put in although I guess we could get a joint mortgage? I worry that it will feel unequal, he has said in the past he is conscious of the financial inequality between us.

I've been letting it all lie for a couple of years waiting to see if my kids were ready to leave home and also because I wasn't in a position to move for work, however Covid has changed things in that I'm now working permanently from home. My kids have also matured quite a lot in the last 6-12 months and having spent a week away from home recently they coped a lot better than expected. It's still a worry though.

If you were me, what would you do?

OP how old are your kids. If by adult you mean late teens then I can see how you may want support them. But if they are older and only recently learned to cope without you for a weekend, then you are not setting them up for success.

Living in the southeast is expensive and anyone who cannot afford to do so, should consider moving rather expecting to be subsidized by others. Although as their parent you have the right to subsidize them or anyone else you want. If they stay in the house with lodgers, they will still need to run the household, if they only recently acquired maturity to cope without you for a weekend, I can’t see how they would be able to run a household with strangers living there. You need to enable them by pushing them into the big bad world, otherwise you are doing them a disservice.

They've spent periods on their own for many years, they are perfectly able to fend for themselves day to day. I work ft and always have so I've not babied them. When I went away recently they actively did household tasks without any reminders, noticed and completed jobs that needed doing, that kind of thing.

They are 19 and 21, so adults but still relatively young. All their friends still live at home; locally I don't know any young people who have moved out much before 30 without significant family help because it's so expensive.

Can your DP move in with you? Or is he tied by work?
If he can't, I'd probably look at the option of your kids and others renting from you - means you still have your house while you figure out if the new area is definitely right for you.

What is your Ex's share of the SE house. Can you sell up and buy a smaller place (perhaps 2 bed flat) for your dcs in the SE, pay off your Ex and have a deposit for the rural property?

Personally if your OH is not contributing to the mortgage, I would not put him on the mortgage. Makes things easier if you split up for whatever reason. I assume your OH will move into your bigger property. He could use the rent he is paying for a small house by way of 'rent' to you or to help defray the expenses of running your home. If it is cheaper than what he is currently paying, he does not lose out. But I would not put him on the mortgage if you are not married.

No, his business is where he lives, plus elderly family. He did live in this area for many years but isn't a fan of London. Apart from my kids I have no ties to this area and I love where he lives, plus financially it's much cheaper.

The situation with my Ex is complicated but hopefully I wouldn't have to pay him more than 200k. This would leave me with about 450k including some savings, so I could split it 3 ways; 300k might buy a 2 bed flat however I think they wouldn't cope living together in a small place. Which is why I'm slightly leaning (for now at least) towards letting then live here with friends and pay rent.

I live in an area very similar to what you describe and I've seen adult children at home around here until well into their thirties. Wages can be lowish in those commuter towns or suburbs but why is one of your children unemployed in a location within reach of central London? They need to get busy and get working.
You've mentioned house prices but not the idea of buying them a flat to share and a flat for yourself - I know it's a comedown from a house but it's how many young people manage to get started on owning something. Then when after a few years they fall in love and pair up, the couple pool their resources and with help from families, grandparents, parents etc they manage to get either a two-bed flat, a maisonette, a small two-bed house or even a three-bed semi or townhouse.

I don't think moving to the country is on for the young people. One thing I personally wouldn't be too keen on is throwing my lot in with a partner who has a business and doesn't want to buy a joint property. I wonder why that is. But I don't know you both as people so what can I really know or judge about that situation?

Would renting out the bigger house not generate enough rent to pay for a two bed flat for them to share?

You keep your house if things don’t work it, the bigger house generate more income for your kids to live rent free. Ex can wait for his money.

My younger child has issues with anxiety, and hasn't left the house in 6 months (Covid obviously hasn't helped). He is very bright but doesn't do people. He'd be very happy working from home but obviously there are not many roles of that type you can walk into. For MH reasons I'm in not badgering him to get a job. He did work part time while studying previously so it's not like he has never worked.

My OH, it's hard to explain, but he likes a very simple life. He has zero attachment to anything material. Buying a house just isn't important to him. I think if I wanted to, he might, but he'd happily rent forever. For me, I grew up in rented accommodation and always felt insecure. My goal in life was always to own my own home.

Keep in mind that if you’re renting to 5 people, your house becomes an HMO. In fact - 5 tenants is a “large HMO”. So there are rules around that. Licence for a start! Probably modifications like fire doors. Tax to pay.

I do actually think that’s a good idea though, if you can afford to rent it out as an HMO but still buy in your new location.

But you need to be clear whether your children are getting discounted rent for managing the property - are they going to collect rent, find tenants? What if they have 3 mates then 2 move on... if you can’t afford the void period, are you going to expect your children to live with strangers? You need to think it all through.

Can they live with their dad?

What are the trigger points legally for you to repay the money you owe to their father from the house? Does he need the money in the short term? If not, would he be amenable to the pair of you jointly buying a 2 bed flat for the 2 children to rent from you?

I think you’re jumping the gun with your boyfriend though. You’re not young ‘uns, can you really be bothered with someone who can’t cope with you having more wealth? I have more money than my second husband - I’d find it very tiresome if he had any kind of issue with that 🤷🏻‍♀️

Cross posted. An unemployed 19yo who hasn’t left the house for 6 months, who has anxiety? I think you should stay in your current house with him. I know it’s hard to put your own life on hold - but yes so young, these are such uncertain times... I don’t think you should leave him, or subject him to the stress of living with others at the moment. I hope he’ll be OK

I had thought about the HMO. We live in an area with an expanding student population, most of the big old houses locally have been converted to student accomodation / HMOs.

They can't live with their dad, nor would they want to. They speak to/ see him 2-3 times a year. Their choice. He lives about 5 miles away but it might as well be 500.

I probably wouldn't move until youngest was more settled/ in a job, I feel he probably still needs me around a bit longer. He is a great kid, and I know he will find his way. I don't think he will move with me.

To be honest what I'm thinking of in the shortish term (,so maybe 6 months from now) is renting a slightly bigger place with OH, we can get another bedroom up there for another 200-300 per month, and I might start spending a week a month up there as I can work from home there too. That way I'm still around most of the time but it might be best of both worlds for now. I feel by doing that I'll still be here enough for my DS too.

I'm like you, OP, feeling the need to own a house. And while I accept you obviously know him and what he's about, I'm tempted to say owning a business is quite a material thing! What would happen to you in old age if you just live with a partner in a rented house and at some point he dies: could you then continue to afford to rent? Would you have any means to fall back on?
For your younger child, notwithstanding the pandemic and all the difficulties, it would be good to think about a plan, preferably with his father, to deal with his current situation and the anxiety, with a view to finding a comfortable niche for him where he can function, be occupied, live actively and earn. If he is bright, he will be a good subject to learn to understand about anxiety and techniques that can help him to manage it. There are plenty of books and other sources for this. Also the idea of exploring the potential of online media for a career in research or something technical for someone who is perhaps a bit nerdy and not people oriented.

In that case, while you are all staying, you can rent out three bedrooms to students or workers, thereby earning good money to put aside towards a future deposit for the children or what you will eventually have to pay the ex. Say at anything from £400 - 800 per room per month depending on size and facilities, that's a worthwhile addition to the finances.

You'll need planning permission for a HMO plus all the licensing requirements- fire doors etc. That will take a few months to sort so renting to students probably isn't going to happen until the next uni calendar year.

I don't think I'd be splitting the equity with them just yet, there's no guarantee that they'll spend it on property even if they could afford to and they could end up wasting the £100k.

I wouldn't simply just put your new partner on any mortgage you get either, could get messy.

I would rent out your home and use the income for the rental to rent a smaller house for your DC will leave you with some spare to buy or rent a better property with your DP

@Abitofalark

In that case, while you are all staying, you can rent out three bedrooms to students or workers, thereby earning good money to put aside towards a future deposit for the children or what you will eventually have to pay the ex. Say at anything from £400 - 800 per room per month depending on size and facilities, that's a worthwhile addition to the finances.

That’s a good idea. Even one room - lets you gauge how your kids esp youngest manage living with a stranger and taking charge there as you’ll be away one week in 4. And if u r not already then sit down with them and the running costs, rental income... make sure they are aware you can’t and won’t do this for ever!

I have similar age children and I think they are still at a tricky age to move away from. They are still in the ‘fledgling’ stage and need that mix of independence and support.

I think a gradual approach is the right one, visiting your OH for longer and longer spells over the next year. If it wasn’t for Covid I’d say over a shorter time but the world isn’t quite the same right now and the youngsters haven’t got quite the same opportunity to work and rent as they might have had.

In the longer term supporting them with a deposit for their own flat/house with the sale of your bigger one could be the way forward but both will need to earn that help by finding themselves stable employment and choosing the area they want to live first so that they have done at least half the work towards the help.

It’s easy to rent a room in a flatshare in zone 2 or 3 for far less than £1k a month - I rented in London for a long time and was close to 30 before renting a one bed on my own would have been anywhere near affordable for me! I know that’s not ideal, but there are benefits to Flatshare living in terms of socialising, ‘growing up’ learning to be independent whilst also marking new friends etc. It might be good for them to share a home with others their own age. Also, in terms of buying somewhere, I may have a bit of the green eyed monster here, as it is obviously financially advantageous to get in the ladder and I would have lived a three bed house in my 20’s!! - but most young people in London could only dream of a three bed house as a first purchase!! A one bed flat is far more usual, and when you say that you are not sure how they would cope together in a smaller 2-bed together, it does sound a tiny bit spoilt to me (spoilt sounds harsh, just more that, from my experience, most young people do often live in small shared accommodation while they are finding their feet) For me, my early 20’s were spent living in some fairly tiny studenty cramped places, I thought that was the norm to be honest. And, from my perspective, I think it’s good for building resilience. Having said all that, if there are anxiety issues and you are concerned about mental health then it is completely understandable that you want to provide for them a more ‘ideal’ living situation. Part of becoming independent though is living within your means, and also recognising what you can afford on the salary you earn (which, in London can be a big motivation to increase your earnings!). Just trying to add another perspective. Good luck.

A lodger as an interim solution to cover renting a larger place that you could stay at on a regular basis.
Then sell, pay off your ex, get a home near your partner (with him, he pays what he would have done in rent to you?), smaller house/flat for your sons - they also pay rent, even if nominal. Mortgage on one of the properties if needed, covered by the rent/partner contribution.
Does ex need repaying now, if the money is being used to provide a home for BOTH your sons?

It wouldn’t need to be an HMO, they could be lodgers if your sons.

I think they would both struggle with living with strangers, I have spoilt them a bit by them having grown up in a big house, they currently have a games room and gym room, lots of space. I'm not sure if I could cope with anyone else being here with me either.

We used to have a lot of foreign language students lodging locally, I would have been tempted to do that (as it's a defined period as little as 3-4 weeks and they are out 80%of the time, so it might give us all some idea of what it would be like having someone else living here) but Covid has put a stop to that for now.

I'll give it some more thought though. The money is tempting - apparently students will pay up to £500 a month for a double room.

In some ways I'd love them to move with me. OHs area is nicer, safer, you can get a really nice 2 bed house in the premium areas for under 150k. In the less desirable areas (which are still better than here) it's up to 30k less.

But eldest has all their friends here, girlfriend and job so I doubt would move because of that even if it meant having their own house.

Discussed with them, they are not keen on living with anyone they don't know. So the possibility of a lodger of some description is not really a goer.

A lodger can be friends?