Support with over the phone scammers

[carringtonm]

I'm posting in AIBU for traffic but I'd like some advice.

My elderly grandmother (lives alone and is mostly independent) has been tricked into giving her card details over the phone three times now. My dad and auntie have spoken to her at length about what to do if the caller is someone unknown and asking for card details (hang up and tell someone else), but she has again fallen for it this week and has had a large amount of money taken (thousands). She has a sign above her phone saying to never give out details and to hang up the call but she just doesn't seem to get it.

My dad has been considering taking her bank cards away, taking the phone away completely, cutting part of her cards off so she can't give the full number, and changing her phone number, but all of these options are either unfair, unsafe or a short term solution to the problem.

Does anyone have any experience of protecting older relatives or friends from this type of scam, or can suggest anything we may not have considered? Thank you.

I would look into a call blocking system that only allows calls through from a preset list of authorised numbers. I would also remove the cards so she is not able to give them the details. I know that sounds awful, but it seems as though she is not able to make reasoned decisions re finances

Some of these may be of help: www.which.co.uk/reviews/cordless-phones/article/how-to-block-nuisance-calls

Sadly, removal of the card might be the safest thing.

@hulahoopqueen I'm glad you've said that because we've been debating if taking her cards is a form of financial abuse or whether it's safeguarding a vulnerable person. It feels so mean and wrong so I'm glad to hear the perspective of someone not emotionally involved.

I didn't know you could bar all unknown numbers so that's worth a look, thank you. We assumed you could only block a number once you knew it existed if that makes sense.

She still goes shopping independently so perhaps a debit card with a small amount of money a week for her to use that my dad or auntie can transfer? That way if she does get caught again then she will only lose a minimal amount.

You should also consider getting her properly checked up and getting paperwork done so someone from the family can take care of her affairs safely as she seems vulnerable

I’d speak to whoever looks after her phone, ie BT virgin, then can block unknown numbers. I think you could block incoming calls bar a few key numbers?

you could also look at power of attorney? She is clearly vulnerable and is unable to manage her finances, that way all the money is safe and she would only have access to a cash account with a limited amount of £ in it

You should be telling her to NEVER give her details to anyone on the phone even if it comes up with a 'known' number. Scammers can piggyback on bank numbers etc. This may be what's causing her confusion - you're instructions allow it some times, but not others, when never is clearer and there is less oportunity for confusion.

However, I would definitely change the phone number as this one will be on the scammers 'elderly and easily scammable' list. Also speak to her bank to put fraud blocks in place for any un-preauthorised transactions. I believe some will put a delay on these and flag them up to a 3rd party like you or your father before letting them go through.

@Thingsdogetbetter Sorry, I worded it badly. She has been told to never give them out full stop. I think a number change is best too but we obviously need to stop the behaviour or she'll just be targetted on her new number eventually.

Report to the bank and complain: there is a chance you’ll get some money refunded.

Instant access to thousands of pounds is the easy and obvious thing to change here. She will never need that.

Get most of her money moved into an account that she has no card details for.

@Cocomarine That's true. I'm not sure why she has large amounts in accounts like that but definitely something for my dad to look into.

Whoever mentioned power of attorney, I think that's the route he'll need to go down too. Does there need to be proof of an inability to safeguard one's self in order to obtain PoA? I'm not sure my gran would agree to it herself because she's very stubborn!

OP, there have (very sadly) been a number of similar threads on MN and I found this one from a few months back which might perhaps have some useful tips in it. Also advice on how to perhaps recover the money that was stolen, although that can be very difficult to do, I'm afraid.

Sympathies, it's so awful.

Does there need to be proof of an inability to safeguard one's self in order to obtain PoA?

No, the opposite, it needs to be done before she loses capacity. You can apply online and it is straighforward.

If she speaks to the bank, many will do a card that only allows you to withdraw cash and not be used as debit card. It means even if she does give out the details on the card they're useless to a scammer as they won't be able to process them into a transaction. Obviously, it depends how much use she makes of the debit card rather than for withdrawing cash obviously, but even in the current climate I'd expect shops to be understanding of older customers wanting to use cash.

Thank you to all of you. I've shared this thread with my mum who is going to chat with my dad about the next steps, but we are thinking it needs to be time to take her cards away.

The bank is aware but I'm not sure how she stands getting money back if she's willingly handed over details, sadly. I'm not local to my family so I've just heard about it over the phone when I was chatting to my mum earlier. I'll keep checking back to this thread and I've had a look at the other thread someone linked to which has some good advice too.

Get power of attorney. Move all but day to day money into a separate account with no card.

As a pp said, get a card for withdrawals only.

Call blocker. Very small list of incoming numbers.

It may sound harsh, but clearly she's not dealing with things very well so needs help.

Our phone makes callers announce their numbers and you then press ’1’ if you want to take the call.
Since we acquired this phone in the spring, we have not had a single sales or scam call. Presumably they know we are unlikely to accept the call so just don’t bother to announce themselves.

Just to to point out to all those advocating taking away her cards, blocking numbers on her phone and that you 'get power of attorney' (that's not how it works, you don't get it, it has to be freely given by a capacitated individual and isn't activated until they no longer have capacity), this is a person with free will and is assumed to have capacity to make her own decisions.

Talking through options with her and being led by how she agrees to be supported and safeguarded should be the first and only course of action, up to and until it is evident she does not have the capacity to make those decisions.

Worrying how many people immediately resort to treating an elderly woman like a child and depriving her of basic liberties, access to money, contact, choice.

Sometimes you have to take away something to keep people safe and save them upset.