Capital M

[UnaCorda]

Just wanted to share that the word "mum", when used as a noun, does not have a capital 'm'.

It particularly doesn't have a capital 'm' when used after the words, "as a"...

(Yes, I'm bored.)

I used to have a manager who wrote it ‘Manager’.

Yes, she was utterly crap in every way possible.

@UnaCorda you can feel othered all you want, that’s not my problem. I am so sick and tired of being told I can’t be a woman, I have to be a cis-female and I can’t be a female because being female is othering certain non females. Now I can’t be Mum because it’s offensive to non mothers. Do us all a favour and bugger off with your snow flake entitled attitude. I am Mum and I always will be.

BoggledBudgie

Your identity isn’t anyone’s problem but yours. We are not about to change our language in order to accommodate you.

"We" being mothers and "you" being not mothers, I suppose.

Thank you for that textbook example of othering.

Or, Boggled was referring to themselves as a person who has a mother? They are most likely to be the ones writing about doing things with mums than referring to themselves with a capital M. Or are you offended by persons who have mothers now?

@Ohtherewearethen

Can you please provide evidence that this is a societal attitude rather than your imagination? *@UnaCorda*

Well you could read some stuff by Jody Day of Gateway Women (she has a blog and a couple of published books) for starters, plus various newspaper articles. Also Bibi Lynch (journalist), Jessica Hepburn and Yvonne John.

that societal attitude (of mothers being more important) is not just in my imagination.

You can tell because they get paid more, treated better, keep their employment longer, have such a huge say in government, are on the boards of so many companies, are consulted about medical and political decisions that affect them, their pain is treated seriously, their rights are never disrespected and their outcomes (like life expectancy) are better than single non-mothers.

All that and a capital letter too. #blessed

@MrsTerryPratchett - exactly!

[quote BoggledBudgie]@UnaCorda you can feel othered all you want, that’s not my problem. I am so sick and tired of being told I can’t be a woman, I have to be a cis-female and I can’t be a female because being female is othering certain non females. Now I can’t be Mum because it’s offensive to non mothers. Do us all a favour and bugger off with your snow flake entitled attitude. I am Mum and I always will be.[/quote]
You absolutely can be Mum. I have no problem with that at all. If it makes you feel important - well, that's fine too.

(Although you can get stuffed with the assertion that my wanting to feel equally valued as a childless woman makes me either entitled or a snowflake.)

Is this something you actually notice on a regular basis? Blizzard thing to be offended by.
I highly doubt Pepe are doing it to make women who can't have children feel like lesser human beings, probably more likely they just don't realise.

Bizzar, not blizzard!

All this upset over a capital M when I can remember another of OP's threads being pulled because she said something horribly racist. As long as it wasn't with a capital letter and offensive to Persons who are not mothers I guess it's not 'othering', hey?

@MrsTerryPratchett

that societal attitude (of mothers being more important) is not just in my imagination.

You can tell because they get paid more, treated better, keep their employment longer, have such a huge say in government, are on the boards of so many companies, are consulted about medical and political decisions that affect them, their pain is treated seriously, their rights are never disrespected and their outcomes (like life expectancy) are better than single non-mothers.

All that and a capital letter too. #blessed

I'm not advocating that mothers should have fewer rights or get less respect. It is worth noting, though, that it's only very recently - last year, I think - that non-parents were allowed to request flexible working.

because you wouldn't say, "Did your Jane go to the store."

You would in the north

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

Is this something you actually notice on a regular basis? Blizzard thing to be offended by. I highly doubt Pepe are doing it to make women who can't have children feel like lesser human beings, probably more likely they just don't realise.

Yes, it is - all the time. I saw it again on Facebook this morning which is what prompted me to post.

I'm not offended, exactly, it just grates.

@Ohtherewearethen

All this upset over a capital M when I can remember another of OP's threads being pulled because she said something horribly racist. As long as it wasn't with a capital letter and offensive to Persons who are not mothers I guess it's not 'othering', hey?

What I wrote was misinterpreted.

I'm not advocating that mothers should have fewer rights or get less respect. It is worth noting, though, that it's only very recently- last year, I think - that non-parents were allowed to request flexible working

How many job opportunities or promotions do you think mothers have forfeited over the decades? How many women do you think have been discriminated against purely on the basis that they are a mother? Either brazenly or discretely, it's gone on for a long time.

@UnaCorda I don't believe it was misinterpreted actually. I read it and thought, wow, did she really say that?! If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Maybe you misinterpret people's intentions when you think they are 'othering' you by using a capital M. It obviously happens quite easily.

@Ohtherewearethen

I'm not advocating that mothers should have fewer rights or get less respect. It is worth noting, though, that it's only very recently- last year, I think - that non-parents were allowed to request flexible working

How many job opportunities or promotions do you think mothers have forfeited over the decades? How many women do you think have been discriminated against purely on the basis that they are a mother? Either brazenly or discretely, it's gone on for a long time.

Yes, I completely agree. But that doesn't make it right for women who aren't mothers to be discriminated against.

Op how do you view adoptive and foster mothers.
do you honestly feel this is a big thing.
why think of yourself as a childless woman; why not just a person ?
did you look up to your own dearly beloved female parent.

[quote Ohtherewearethen]@UnaCorda I don't believe it was misinterpreted actually. I read it and thought, wow, did she really say that?! If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

Maybe you misinterpret people's intentions when you think they are 'othering' you by using a capital M. It obviously happens quite easily.[/quote]
I'm sure you don't believe it, and it probably didn't come across in text. I was trying to point out the absolutely irrelevance of race and how it was used superfluously in the insult that was directed at me. But I'm obviously not going to convince you.

And perhaps I do. But probably not always.

@alexdgr8

Op how do you view adoptive and foster mothers. do you honestly feel this is a big thing. why think of yourself as a childless woman; why not just a person ? did you look up to your own dearly beloved female parent.

I view them as women, I guess. They are neither more or less valuable than women who have given birth (although it's a very valuable thing they are doing), nor more or less valuable than childless women.

Do I think it's a big thing? Not on it's own, no, but it's symptomatic of an attitude that makes things harder for women in my position.

Being a childless women is a significant part of my identity, but not the whole of it.

I value my mum and am close to her; I don't revere her or consider her to be a better person because she was able to have children.

But that doesn't make it right for women who aren't mothers to be discriminated against.

Someone getting something isn't you being discriminated against. Particularly when it's something as ephemeral as a capital letter.

The actual issue is that you are interpreting the sexist idea that women are only good for a few things (sex, decoration, motherhood) and taking that to mean you are being particularly discriminated against. All women are, this is just a facet of a larger issue.

A relative of mine refers to herself as a 'Mumanger', regardless of sentence placement. I think you'd have a meltdown looking through her posts. Belittling both childless women and managers, what a bitch!

Someone getting something isn't you being discriminated against. Particularly when it's something as ephemeral as a capital letter.

No, of course it's not. That's not what I meant.

Capital letters aren't ephemeral once they're published in some form.

Oh my giddy aunt, I've heard it all now. I honestly didn't think anyone could possibly be made to feel "less than" due to a mostly accidental grammatically misplaced capital!

I have never in my life heard someone say "I always intentionally use a capital at the beginning of Mum on forums specifically to make childless women feel bad!" and to be honest, I don't think I ever will!

This is not an error I remember noticing particularly, but it’s surely an easy mistake to make, given the name ‘Mum’ and the general noun ‘mum’...

I think this is a case of putting 2 + 2 together and getting orange elephants.

Do you have any more concrete examples of ‘pro-natalism’?