Harry Potter was badly written

[Stackys]

I’ve seen this said on here a few times, that the books are badly written and she’s a terrible author who just got lucky.

Why do people say this? The world she created was amazing, what’s wrong with the books?

@TomPinch please explain to me how Harry = Frodo and Sam = Ron aside from the plot of 90% of books - main character and main characters sidekick.

How exactly are these characters the same?

Well said @RiteAid I agree completely

It’s always failed writers who think they know better and throw criticism.

In reality she is hugely creative and her books so successful for a reason. They are quite frankly brilliant in terms of their creativity, imagination, escapism, captivation etc.

I think the ones saying they know better, are simply envious. Credit where it’s due in my world.

Given the general decline of written English, I would think that the vast majority of readers neither know nor care if the writing is good. The story is the point, and clearly she succeeded with that!

@Bluntness100

It’s always failed writers who think they know better and throw criticism.

In reality she is hugely creative and her books so successful for a reason. They are quite frankly brilliant in terms of their creativity, imagination, escapism, captivation etc.

I think the ones saying they know better, are simply envious. Credit where it’s due in my world.

You do realise it is possible to:

• really enjoy her works, both as a child and adult
• see the flaws that could have been fixed by good editing without interfering with its qualities
• see the bigger flaws of her world-building and overall quality
• appreciate the brilliance and strengths of her work*
• have independent views of Rowling as an author and a person
• be envious of her status as a writer

... all at once? Or differently on different days?

You have the emotional range of a teaspoon

(*incidentally, something that Rowling shat all over by allowing Cursed Child to be presented as canon - compare the dignified brilliance of Dumbledore's eulogy for Cedric Diggory - a fantastically drawn character - to the absolutely fucking awful 'well, he got humiliated once so now he's a death eater' in Cursed Child)

I think Harry Potter is a load of rubbish. I tried several times!

I like JK Rowling though.

Incidentally @Bluntness100, I think 'failed writer' is a pretty twatty term.

Would you like to be described as a 'failed [insert job aspiration]'?

JK Rowling was once a 'failed writer' by your standards. It didn't make her any less able to be discerning in her writing and reading habits.

I think Wuthering Heights is a load of rubbish. Tried it several times, book, audio and video. Hate it. Never got to the end of it. Impenetrable bollocks as far as I'm concerned.

Does that make Emily Brontë a bad writer? Me a bad reader? Neither. Just a bad author/reader match.

Rowling 'not being a good writer' is misogynistic trope from TRA's and snobs Or people who read a lot, probably of many different genres and authors, and recognise, and accept, the shortcomings of many of them!

Some of my favourite authors are quite severely lacking in some aspects of writing, but I love them for the bits they are strong on! As I said earlier, Stephen Kng is truly limited, as far as characters go. He relies on, usually internal, monologue and the reader keying inot the sitiations h writes. I can't think of an adult writer who keys into childhood better. But his characters are often stereotypical, prone to do things to fill plot holes!

Recognisng th weakness of an author is not the same as traducing their work... let alone being misgynistic, let alone TRA!

This sort of thing is said by less successful authors, usually much less successful, or even wannabes who have never been published. Or people who have never wanted to write, but read copiously!

It really is normal, acceptable to critique any writer, ones you love, ones you hate, all of them! How else do you find the ones you like?

It really is normal, acceptable to critique any writer, ones you love, ones you hate, all of them!

Indeed, but this thread has been illuminating on why various book clubs I've attended seem to consist of people basically confused as to what they're supposed to be doing there.

I think it is very noticeable that the workmanship of the books gets gradually worse- more sloppy sentences, less tight plots, overlong writing, simply not enough sign of the kind of revision most authors do after they've submitted their first draft. No doubt because the publishers were putting pressure on her to keep up with the merchandise.

Don't see why one shouldn't be allowed to notice that, just like you'd notice if somebody's singing is slightly off key.

Indeed, but this thread has been illuminating on why various book clubs I've attended seem to consist of people basically confused as to what they're supposed to be doing there.

I've only been to a couple. Too scared to go back! I might be devoured by the fearsome dragon that runs it, or might accidentally be excruciatingly rude to the delicate bloke in the corner!

Not worth the possible social pariah label

Some of my favourite authors are quite severely lacking in some aspects of writing, but I love them for the bits they are strong on!

I like this!

yeah, they don't score too many points for originality or prose quality but she did very well to bang out 75k words' worth of mostly [occasionally very] enjoyable, compelling storyline within the space of a decade & a bit, & fully deserves her success.

I can't take people seriously who complain about a story being badly written when:

1. Said story was written to sell, not help Rowling win a nobel. Its done its job, its an escapism story as someone else said, something to read when you need to relax. Why the hell would I care about the writing at that point? I just want to read a decent story for once.

1. The complainers very rarely have any qualifications themselves, haven't sold anything half as good or profitable and are generally just jealous.

Least its better than the pile of tripe called 50 shades of grey. Bet you were all reading that a few years ago, and how did anyone make it past the first page? That's not a good story, it's not well written, it's just a cringe fest from the first page.

I've neither read Harry Potter or 50 Shades of Grey, HP was actually the series that had me put in a rule where if I hear the fans complain about the flaws of something to the point I feel I know everything wrong about it, I'm not going to bother picking it up no matter how much they say it's worth it despite all the problems.

I've neither read Harry Potter or 50 Shades of Grey, HP was actually the series that had me put in a rule where if I hear the fans complain about the flaws of something to the point I feel I know everything wrong about it, I'm not going to bother picking it up no matter how much they say it's worth it despite all the problems.

Most big fans I know moaned more about the films than the books as they left out loads and how anyone understood what was going on ( if they didn't read said books first ) I've no idea as the films are quite confusing I think. The books make much more sense.

They are now the type of films that are on bank holiday Mondays or part of the ' Harry Potter ' season because ITV can't find anything better to put on for a few hours in the afternoons in winter!

Hit ctrl-enter out of habit and it double posted, ugh.

Some people love tearing into things they love, it's part of the enjoyment. I've done it, but I've learned to keep it to myself. There are some places for that style of fandom. I'm sure the books are fine enough, but there are plenty of analysis out there about the flaws from well before the TRA issue. There are people who literally make a living reviewing and tearing apart books for craft discussions, they're not all jealous just because they don't make as much. I'd only suspect the latter if it's someone who ties in their tearing apart with ideological or discusses their own writing in comparison rather than craft reasons.

My 13-year-old read them last year, her review was "eh, they're all right...". I think a lot of the appeal has to do with the time they were published and the culture built around them, which some parents pass on very well. I think, like Tolkien's work among others, it's something that's going to get passed down because the original fans put a lot of love and emotions into it rather than anything specifically to do with the quality.

I'm sure they're well-written for many people, but everything in publishing has a big pinch of luck. That's why it took so many nos to get a deal - you need the right agent and the right publisher at the right time. There is nothing wrong with admitting that or that sometimes shite gets published and becomes successful. We may not always agree on what the shite is, but it happens. As long as people aren't calling others assholes for reading it, I don't mind it people tear into my favourite books.

There's a massive spectrum of difference between critiquing a book - how it's written, plot construction, themes etc (Every piece of literature can and should be subject to that. )
and just dissing it off in a kind of broad stroke way.

I am really suspicious of anybody who does that. eg
*
Or look at this way - she's the kids' equivalent of Dan Brown or John Grisham. Bestsellers don't set the literary bar too high.*

Just smacks of being anti-populist and elitist and wanting to appear clever. As if you can't have a bestseller that is well written.

As for literary criticism, it can also disappear up its own fundament, sometimes becoming so dry and analytical that it kills the momentum and life of a book

The breadth and impact of the HP series is undeniable.

Bet you were all reading that a few years ago, and how did anyone make it past the first page? Ah, the assumprions of the acidic!

As I have said a few times, my qualifications include being a reader and choosing what I like to read.

I have no idea why anyone would so staunchly defend an author against someones mixed opinion of their writing. It's a book, or series of them, and people are bound to have different perspectives!

Nobody here has said a bad word against the author herself, have they? Most people have no idea about the person behind a book. You buy their output, not a slice of their life.

@Bluesheep8

I've only read one. Lots of things were just copied from a book I read and loved as a child - The Worst Witch. I couldn't get past that I'm afraid

Also the Chrestomanci books by Diana Wynne Jones are clearly a huge inspiration to JKR. I also feel the HP books are poorly written, as well as not altogether original.

An interesting thing which CS Lewis did was that he would directly address the reader, sometimes moralisingly; this does not happen in Harry Potter. Some examples from the Narnia books:

• As everyone knows, you should never shut yourself inside a wardrobe. (This is mentioned at least three times.)
• Their quarrel lasted several minutes, but I think it would be dull to write it all down.
• This journey lasted longer than I can describe, even if I wrote pages and pages about it, so I shall skip to the following morning. (Should JKR take note?)
• And now we come to one of the nastiest things in this story. Edmund decided to let Lucy down.
• You would have cried until you had no more tears left in you.

In Roald Dahl's Matilda, Matilda observes: "CS Lewis has one failing: there are no funny bits in his books." I disagree: one of my favourite Narnia characters was the comically pessimistic Puddleglum, who had several funny scenes. "You won't sleep a wink, I shouldn't wonder."

Oh, Puddleglum was hilarious!

SC and The Horse and His Boy tie for my favourite Narnias. The others are too religious for me

I do find that one can easily get confused between what is in the books and what is in the films in HP. For instance - do you ever hear any main character's PoV apart from Harry's? (With the exception of the Muggle PM, Frank, and so on...) Is Dean Thomas ever specified as being mixed race in the books? I don't think he ever explicitly is, IMO. And my husband's favourite line (which he uses on errant Y6 pupils at school as a variant of "make good choices"), "Draco, Draco: once I knew a boy who made All The Wrong Choices..."