...to think warning other drivers about police presence is a courtesy not enabling bad drivers?

[Boomerwang]

Yesterday the police were making traffic stops near a school as it was the first day back (Sweden) and I put it out on facebook, reminding people to check over their cars, go another way if they are in a hurry and watch their speed etc. I put it in a local community group. I was roundly chastised and the thread was removed not long after. Coming from England I thought it was normal that people gave a heads up but their argument was that this way the idiot drivers and people with alcohol or drugs in their system were now warned and won't be taken off the road or fined.

I mean, I don't take drugs or drive under the influence or particularly fast over the speed limit so I wasn't considering that, but if this situation occurs again, I'd like to know what the majority think before I try to help again?

We aren't talking about warning signs. We are talking about people that warn others that there are police on a stretch of road where there isn't a camera, people are warning others that if they are speeding at that point they will get caught. If people speed, they deserve the fine and the points. Speeding kills and I don't agree with people warning people. If they wasn't speeding. Drink / driving then they wouldn't get into trouble either. Not sure what your post is talking about saying I have issues with signs warning driving to slow down. You clearly have afew issues @Mittens030869

I always think it’s dick behaviour when people do this on social media. If you don’t want to be stopped by the police, try driving carefully and within the speed limit. HTH

I was only explaining that the purpose of speed cameras isn't just to catch speeding drivers. I did admit that speed checks were different and I would never consider flashing at another driver to warn about cameras. Any more than you should flash at drivers to say that they could pull out.

You should only flash other drivers to warn them about a genuine hazard, and a speed check isn't that obviously.

But warnings about speed cameras are perfectly valid as they're sign-posted anyway.

Maybe I do have issues about this. As I said, I've experienced the trauma that's caused by losing a family member to a road traffic accident (my FIL) and I know how devastating they are. I also worked in the personal injury department of a law firm and we dealt with a lot of RTAs obviously.

The safety of law abiding drivers is far more important to me than catching speeding drivers, who mostly do get caught out eventually. Speed cameras are a very good deterrent. Which is one of the main purposes of legal sanctions anyway; there are a lot of people who only keep the law because they don't want to go to prison.

Anyway, I apologise for snapping.

I don't have safety issues. I don't speed and I don't flash other drivers. I drive safely and carefully. But I do see the deterrent effect of speed cameras and if it stops irresponsible drivers from speeding at black spots that's a good thing, surely?

I ask again, do you disapprove of traffic warnings about speed checks? Or flashing signals to slow down?

If the OP warns people to check over their cars before leaving their homes, and then they do so (and fix their broken light, etc) hasn’t she therefore prevented people from driving unsafely? Which is the whole point of the police checks?

I agree with you Mittens

You can be the best driver in the world and not realise your speeds crept up

You are quite simply not a very good driver if you don't even know what speed you are doing.

As for the 'only to make money' argument, I would be delighted if all taxation were optional, in the way that speed fines at least in the UK, are only given to those exceeding the speed limit.

I will always flash other drivers if there is a speed camera van ahead.

Someone did it for me once. I was driving a rural road, maybe pushing 40 when the limit was 30. Slowed down after getting flashed at, and sure enough, speed camera van round the next corner. :)

They saved me from a fine, so I now pass the karma on. I don't see the harm in it.

I will always flash other drivers if there is a speed camera van ahead.

Of course there may be people who flash when there's no speed camera van, just for the lolz. If enough did, it would make flashing redundant.

It would be a win-win. Either a speeding driver seeing the flash has an epiphany, and decides "I'm not going to be a wanker for a few seconds" and slows down.

OR

They go "not falling for that trick again .." and get scooped up by the police doing their job of protecting the public from dangerous wankers like speeding motorists.

Might be a movement there ......

Of course I agree that there should be warning signs. But people shouldn't have to be warned not to speed and if they are speeding and get caught they should be fined / points / driving license taken away. I think people actually warning others is silly because them idiots deserve to get fined if they are speeding. I lost my cousin in a road accident. He was 21 and had his whole life ahead of him. People shouldn't need warnings not to speed black spots or not. Not that I disagree with warnings as I say. @Mittens030869

I can not bring myself to care if anyone else gets fined for speeding. I only care about getting fined myself, and I try hard to ensure that can't happen.

Actually, on a slight tangent, I think part of the problem with motoring offences is the inability of the courts to deal with repeat offenders. I regularly see people in my local paper with strings of driving offences, sometimes dozens, and on some occasions over 100. They get caught driving whilst banned and they get...their driving ban extended. Oh, that's good, seems like that will work. And they're back in court over and over and keep getting one last chance. Until they kill someone and then there is, rightly, fury at how someone with such a long history of disregard for road safety was still on the road.

In the North of Ireland we always flash at oncoming cars to warn them of police ahead, speed cameras or customs dipping. Plenty of Facebook groups set up specifically for this purpose too. And phone systems. This sort of thing is actively encouraged by the local community. Although, particularly the area where I’m from, I imagine this stems directly from police brutality and discrimination towards catholics. Which still happens albeit more subtly. YANBU

Actually, on a slight tangent, I think part of the problem with motoring offences is the inability of the courts to deal with repeat offenders.

That's not the courts fault. It's the governments. It would be trivial to make punishments for motoring offences much more severe. There just isn't the political will for it.

Part of the problem is that motoring offences - particularly speeding - aren't regarded as proper laws by society. If I ran a company, I'd be quite blunt about not wanting to hire criminals - and that means speeders. Get points on your licence ? Here's your P45.

That's not the courts fault. It's the governments.

Yes, I agree. I didn't explain it properly but what I was thinking in my head was that the courts are unable to deal with it because there is nothing at their disposal.

@IDontWantToGoToBed

Okay. I get what you're saying, and I agree that speeding drivers should be caught and fined. For that to be the priority, speed cameras need to also be put in place at places that are not accident black spots. Like on the motorway, where people drive at ridiculous speeds or on straight stretches of dual carriageways/A roads. Then I'd heartily agree with not warning drivers in advance.

But in accident black spots, then I would be all for warning drivers. I'll tell you why. My FIL was simply pulling out to turn around in a car park opposite. A driver came round the corner and smashed into the car. Tragically, my FIL died of catastrophic injuries early the following morning.

There's no proof that the other driver had been speeding. He may not have been at that point, though he had been further back from there according to a witness, though that was never proved as my FIL had pulled out without seeing the other driver, so legally he was to blame (something my MIL found very hard to accept). But if the driver had been driving more slowly, as he should have been, going round a bend where there are parked cars), my FIL would have survived most probably.

So anything that persuaded irresponsible drivers from driving too fast in town centres (and yes around schools) must surely be preferable to other road users paying the price as well. Even if it means that the speeding driver isn't caught that time.

Maybe a better way of putting it is, don't flash a driver just because there's a speed trap but if there's a genuine that he's going too fast to be able to avoid.

Imagine if someone was driving drunk and then ran over your kid, and the police could stop them. Or if a criminal was kidnaping someone. There's a reason why police do their jobs.

@zingally

I will always flash other drivers if there is a speed camera van ahead.

Someone did it for me once. I was driving a rural road, maybe pushing 40 when the limit was 30. Slowed down after getting flashed at, and sure enough, speed camera van round the next corner. :)

They saved me from a fine, so I now pass the karma on. I don't see the harm in it.

You don't see the harm?! Why are you being so blasé about speeding? You seem quite proud of the fact that you were "pushing 40 in a 30 limit" and got away with it and now you're so pleased with yourself that you help other idiots get away with it too. How about, instead of a warned-about speed camera round that corner that made you slow down, there had been a horse and rider, or a family out on their bikes and you were still speeding? There is a reason for a speed limit of 30 on a rural road even if YOU think there is no reason for it. Why do you think the speed limit doesn't apply to YOU? You should be ashamed of yourself. I never wish bad on people, but since you are the one to mention karma, I hope it comes knocking at your door in an entirely different way to wipe that smug smile away.

I drive the full mile stretch of my village at 20 mph and I cannot count the amount of times I get tailgated and targeted - gestures, shouting abuse, sounding their horn, all because I dare to adhere to the speed limit.

It infuriates people.

For those who consider themselves to be doing good deeds by warning other drivers of speed cameras or police presence, perhaps you'd think differently if you lived in an area that had motorists speeding carelessly through, with zero regard for the law.

I always agree with warning others, be that on FB or otherwise. I use Waze along with radar/laser detectors which have saved my arse on more than one occasion! It’s very rare that I speed at a level that would earn me more than a FPN these days and I maintain a clean license, back in the day I used to be very very naughty though. The closest to big trouble was passing a police Volvo coming in the opposite direction at such a high speed they didn’t even bother to brake/turn round.

What's the difference with what OP did and SatNavs/ apps such as Waze that prewarn drivers of speed cameras and police presence etc.

@PatricksRum

What's the difference with what OP did and SatNavs/ apps such as Waze that prewarn drivers of speed cameras and police presence etc.

I'm guessing they lack the specific intent at a specific location to make it an offence ?

That said it's an interesting point. It would be amusing if this thread prompted them to be made unlawful .

@PatricksRum

What's the difference with what OP did and SatNavs/ apps such as Waze that prewarn drivers of speed cameras and police presence etc.

Don't SatNavs only warn you of the permanent cameras, not random speed traps?

Don't SatNavs only warn you of the permanent cameras, not random speed traps?

I think some of the network enabled mapping services allow users to note when they've passed a mobile site, and that can be fed into the live updates to alert nearby motorists.

If they don't they could

Legality would be another matter.

I drove a hire car a couple of years ago (Ford) that was able to read the speed limits along with a mapping database and automatically set the limiter if requested (which I did).

So we return to my point that it's society, not technology that condones speeding.

@DGRossetti Clearly not. There are road signs warning about speed cameras. Because the purpose isn't to catch speeding drivers but as a deterrent to speeding at accident black spots. The sat navs only warn about speed cameras that are already sign-posted anyway, if drivers are observing properly, they'll see them.