how to get a narcissist to cooperate (without having any incentive)

[twentytwentyvision]

I already know IABU to ask insofar as it's common knowledge that narcissists are impossible to deal with, but I'm still hoping someone can help.

I'm posting in AIBU rather than divorce, partly for traffic, but because my question is specifically about how to deal with a type of person, rather than the actual legal issues. It just happens to be in a divorce context, it could be about any kind of dispute or disagreement really.

I just spoke to my counsellor IRL and she wasn't able to help at all and I now feel even more deflated.

I'm divorcing a classic narcissist (it's easier to describe him that way because he meets all the criteria, instead of going on a long ramble to describe what he's like)

This divorce has been dragging out for 5 years now. At this point, STBXH is saying that he's decided to apply for the decree absolute, but without the consent order being dealt with. It obviously doesn't make sense to half finish things, but I don't know how I can persuade him of that.

In this situation, he has been a cocklodger and opportunistic, so he believes that getting a decree absolute so he can say he's divorced is great and me being stuck without a consent order is entirely my problem and he doesn't care.

I don't have the cash available or the energy to go through a full court battle with him to get a resolution that way, so I really need to persuade him to deal with this out of court.

I'm trying not to get my hopes up that someone has a magic answer, but if anyone has dealt with a narcissist, especially in a dispute context - how the heck do you get one to listen and follow reason and common sense when they believe they don't really have any incentive to do so, it's all your problem and they couldn't care less about that.

Thank you for reading

You can't.

If people like this could be persuaded to be reasonable against their will, we wouldn't need the law!

You're not going to persuade him to be reasonable - and I suspect you realise this already since you're divorcing him.

He can force the decree and you can deal with finances, etc afterwards. It's not as neat but if it's been that long and he forces it (and gets deemed service, etc), you can't really stop him.

I would post the legal specifics on the divorce board and try to get some help on those - you're definitely barking up the wrong tree trying to persuade him to be nice though!

That said, one thing that helped make my exH want to appear reasonable was meeting another partner he wanted to impress - do you have any Facebook acquaintances you secretly hate that you could set him up with?

You can’t as PP said. Leopard, spots and all that.

The longer you leave the financials, the worse it will get because it’s unfinished and it leaves them in control of a little part of your life. They thrive on that.

You can apply to Court yourself, why has it been left till now? It’s a protracted (but structured) process but you can do it yourself and it has an end point.

I can only suggest what an OP said, get someone who he tries to impress, or someone who he only shows his 'good side' in front of.
Maybe a family member that he's always on best behaviour in front of ?
His DC, if he's still trying to pretend he's the wounded party to them and trying to make you out to be the 'bad guy'?

You have to go to court. You can do it without a lawyer.

Or go to a barrister via public access if you just want advice and representation on the day, as it can work out cheaper than getting solicitors to do the leg work.

PS I had to divorce a narcissist who was dragging it out so I sympathise.

So you have the nisi?

As the above posters have implied it has to be framed as being in his interested to sort out.

For example (not sure if applicable) if in the near future he can expect to receive a lump sum ( inheritance, parents downsizing to pass on wealth, bonus, redundancy pay out) you’d have a claim on it.

If you have savings imply you’ll happily spend all yours so he has nothing to claim half of infact you’ll be after his.

Thank you to the PPs who have replied.

I do know IABU in that you can't make a narcissist be nice and become reasonable, so I suppose what I'm asking is for suggestions of why something left unfinished would be a problem for him - and thank you to PPs for the suggestions. An example could be - it looks really bad in future relationships if he's got outstanding divorce issues, women he meets could judge him very badly for that, or be wary of getting involved with him. Is me turning up during the honeymoon period of a new relationship and starting court proceedings really something that he'd want?

I suppose he thinks he's got all the power and he's really clever because he doesn't have anything to loose financially, but he's not really thinking of it in terms of potential aggravation rather than financial loss

@twentytwentyvision

Thank you to the PPs who have replied.

I do know IABU in that you can't make a narcissist be nice and become reasonable, so I suppose what I'm asking is for suggestions of why something left unfinished would be a problem for him - and thank you to PPs for the suggestions. An example could be - it looks really bad in future relationships if he's got outstanding divorce issues, women he meets could judge him very badly for that, or be wary of getting involved with him. Is me turning up during the honeymoon period of a new relationship and starting court proceedings really something that he'd want?

I suppose he thinks he's got all the power and he's really clever because he doesn't have anything to loose financially, but he's not really thinking of it in terms of potential aggravation rather than financial loss

Why havnt you applied through court yourself?

I think the framing it for him is good, BUT it has to be done in such a way where he figures it out. If it comes across as your idea in any way, he'll know you want it and he'll spot the vulnerability through which to "poke" you.

My friend had to go the court route and it was a nightmare, but the judge saw straight through her ex and basically gave my friend what she wanted. The point however, was that in front of the judge, her ex was clearly motivated to look good. So any kind of authority figure (as deemed by him) who was on your side could be helpful, simply by being present or making their presence felt. Not sure if that's possible...

For your own sanity in this, remember that you know him, you know he's going to pull shit move after shit move. Write a list of the sort of things he's going to do and then when he does them - and he will - give yourself a point (or a shot 😉) and laugh at him to yourself. It can help to stop him getting to you and sapping your energy.

Good luck!

The reason I haven't applied to court yet is I can't really face the protracted process and if there's any way I can come to an agreement now and avoid it, that would be far better

@twentytwentyvision

The reason I haven't applied to court yet is I can't really face the protracted process and if there's any way I can come to an agreement now and avoid it, that would be far better

I think your pissing in the wind tbh. You know what he is like. You can’t really blame him when your stalling too.

Five years... you can’t really blame him for that. If you’d wanted rid enough you’d have put the papers in. Stop trying to think of ways to get him to do it and just do it yourself

Can you pretend it's your idea (to do it his way) and it's in your own best interests for some reason and you thought he'd do the other way as it makes more sense for him but it's nice he's putting you first for a change. He might just be reactive and spiteful enough to not want to make you happy and end up choosing to do what you actually want. He sounds ignorant enough for reverse psychology to work.

I suppose what I'm asking is for suggestions of why something left unfinished would be a problem for him

The reason not to leave it is the uncertainty for both parties.

I would explain to him that the decree absolute doesn't shut the doors on the finances (encourage him to google it rather than taking your word for it) so unless you get remarried, you would always be able to claim against his assets/income in the future. He might not have anything now, but what if he won the lottery? Would he want to share it with you? It might be worth telling him that you've looked into it and you're actually quite happy to leave the finances open to be settled in the future in case he comes into some money!

I actually said all of this to my exH when I was in the same situation trying to persuade him to sign a clean break order as part of the divorce - the thought of knowing he could turn up in my life at any point in the future, even years down the line, and reap the benefits of my new single life was horrible. You can never know when it might happen and any future financial success would be tainted by knowing I might have to share it with him.

He never agreed to the clean break order as he thought it was some sort of trick (evidently he never even googled to check). He got remarried and extinguished his own claim to my assets (not that I have any, but it was nice to have the certainty for the future).

And then more recently, our circumstances have changed and now I'm actually not ok at all with a clean break and it would be unreasonable for him not to contribute given the circumstances.

So once I tell him, he's going to wish he signed a bloody clean break order when I was begging him to!

You need to treat him like a toenail fungus. It's irritating, persistent and will take the to eradicate with a fuckton of patience. I understand that you don't want to go to court, but that's what is needed to remove him from your life. Persistent application of the legal process.

Get it started tomorrow. Assume he will block you every step of the way. Think fungus.