Covid profiteering dentist.

[RipOffForNothing]

NC for this.

I'm pissed off at my dentist, I called today to make an appointment because my filling dropped out 3 weeks ago and now I'm in bloody pain, both top and bottom gums hurt.

I called up and got told, I've got to pay 7 pound for fuckin PPE. Nevermind the fact they are not the cheapest dentist anyway.

AIBU to think they are just profiteering?

I mean really a fuckin apron does not cost 7 pound. It's total bullshit. I did disagree down the phone but the short and sweet is, it's tough shit.

The dentist always wears an apron and mask anyway.

They are a private dentist as well as NHS. I'm private. I'm not saying that to sound stuck up, but to point out I do not pay NHS prices as is. I just think it's shady as fuck to be marking a apron up so much. I will be leaving them after this.

May be we need a system where once you qualify as a doctor or dentist in the UK you must work solely for the NHS for 10 years after.

I’m a dentist - definitely not rich and definitely NOT making more money during Covid - it’s been a huge pay cut and lots of practices will go under I’m sure. £7 isn’t even close to the cost of the PPE - more like £35 if drilling involved. And we are working at 30% previous capacity. My nurse would be offended by ‘spraying a few things down’.

If it’s so easy and profitable - YOU DO IT OP

Thank you to everyone else who appreciates how hard it is working in all the PPE at this time and how much your dentists actually care

#dentistsarepeopletoo

@Xenia

May be we need a system where once you qualify as a doctor or dentist in the UK you must work solely for the NHS for 10 years after.

This only works if everyone who goes to university also has to work in the public sector too. If you have to do 10 years NHS after 6 years of medical school, you should have to do 5 years of council/civil service/military work after 3 years of BSc or BA.

But then, why just stop at university education? Why not bring back National Service so that everyone who benefits from living in a stable wealthy country has to put something back?

£7 iis not profiteering. They are just covering costs.

It's not profiteering. OP acts like training and becoming a dentist is easy!

It's not cheap! We need dentists and they are some of the brightest people in our country - it's not easy getting on a dental degree! Nor is it easy completing the degree.

It's hard work to run a dental practice - I don't think people realise how lucky they are that there still are NHS dentists. The cost of your PPE was much higher.

Dentistry also has one the highest suicide rates for any profession - so it's by no means a walk in the park. If you think you're being ripped off maybe go elsewhere and stop slating someone who is working hard to make a living - who is putting their life at risk seeing patients in a pandemic.

If it’s so easy and profitable - YOU DO IT OP

QFT. People are happy to spend their teenage years drinking and shagging instead of studying, and then complain when someone else gets qualifications and earns more doing a highly specialist job.

Thank you maskingforit

We are all trying I promise - there are just and unbelievable set of hoops we are all trying to navigate and jump through right now and no one is sure on how best to go about re-opening safety

YABU

They are absolutely not profiteering from £7. Addition PPE: Ffp3 masks/ masks/ visors are very expensive. PPE costs have increased massively. If you see a private dentist they have been out of work for almost all of lockdown..there for not making any money atm.
Almost all procedures create an aerosol which then require a fallow time of the surgery of 1 hour.
So that means they can’t treat anyone in that surgery once you’ve left for 1 hour.
They also need 2 nurses for an aerosol procedure so that’s all the PPE for 3 people and their pay for 2 hours...

My private dentist charges £15 for basic PPE, and £36 for anything involving drilling, so £7 is not the end of the world. Also, they are able to see way less patients, since desinfecting after every patient takes 30 mins.

NHS dentists have not been without income for months. They were paid by the government more than 80% of their normal income for the entire time they were shut ( and the missing percentage was due to the fact no need to pay for ppe, amalgams etc) since return they have also been paid at their normal rate, despite being only able to see 6-8 patients per day. Please don’t think they are being hard done to financially. Mine charged me £36 extra for ppe, I was quite shocked to find whilst the dentist had full level 3 mask on the poor dental Nurse only had a regular cheapie disposable.

£7 is a bargain price OP. There was a guy on tv on the news talking about the cost of ppe and I think he said it was £35 each for him and his assistant. Because it has to be aerosol proof.

I hope you’ve seen all the posts so you know the majority of people are saying the same thing, it’s not about profiteering, it’s about the cost of ppe.

My filling cane out the first day of lockdown. Looking forward to getting it replaced over coming weeks when my nhs dentist finally opens on Monday (Scotland).

Surely that depends on whether they are self rmployed of not? Self employed dentist's may be exempt from SEISS.

This

It really gets my goat when people think ALL dentists and doctors are minted - this isn't California!

Youve still got the practice running costs

People seem to think that the dentist is just a dentist and the building, surgery, nurses, reception staff, materials, etc all just come for free? Where do you think the money comes for the chair? The x ray machine? The equipment? Maintenance?

The cost of PPE will go directly back into the practice, the cost of PPE has increased massively (the masks we buy are up 200%) not to mention the additional PPE in terms of FFP3s, gowns etc. Fallow time of 1hr. You are looking at massively reduced patient turnover, and therefore massively reduced profit. And if the practice cant cover its running costs it will shut.

@XeniaThere is not a problem with dentists wanting to do NHS work. The government sets the amount of NHS work that can be done and every year it is all used up. You cant just do NHS work willy nilly, you can only do the amount the governemnt allows you. Most dentists will do some NHS work especially for the first 10 years. But you are still self employed if you do NhS work, the NHS doesnt pay your salary they pay for the work you do, and then the patients pay the NHS.

I was there this week... one cracked filling fully replaced, and bottom tooth temporarily filled, until my next appointment in September. Husband is 2/3 of the way through root canal treatment. We haven’t been charged anything for PPE.
NHS dentist

You would be surprised at the cost of PPE right now.

I buy gloves for my workers, usually $9 a box (50 pairs) pre-covid, now $35 per box (same size)

Manufacturers are raising prices because they know they can. Because they know we need it.

No, I don't think spraying a few things down costs 7 quid a time. Also dentist would have to wipe the sodding chair an change the mouth wash anyway. Covid or not

You obviously have no idea what measures are put in place between patients at a dental surgery under normal circs, op. I used to be a dental nurse, and certainly would not want to be doing it in the current climate.

My husband is a private dentist. During lockdown they were all (private and nhs) asked to provide telephone triage to reduce pressure on the nhs. They can’t charge for this. So he covered his own patients (no problem in that as that is standard) but also had phone calls from lots of the general public too. He earned nothing. But they did not get business rates relief and most dentists are self employed and earn over 50k so did not get self employed help. But somehow despite earning nothing they (like all other self employed who were not looked after) had to keep paying their personal bills, but in business owners cases also the business bills (rent and rates to name but a few). Nhs dentists did get 80% of normal amounts - but they were actually there manning the phones so it wasn’t actually for nothing - they did work- and most are mixed in any event with private work subsidising nhs. Loans and savings only go so far to pay costs. The cost of PPE is very high - that plus the fallow time means most places will be lucky to break even. Lots are working at a loss, which is not sustainable for individuals.
Dentists seem universally disliked. It is a skilled and hard job to do. You’re not obliged to visit them and pay. But their job is not something you can do yourself. Suspect there will be less dentist availability for years after this - having seen how the whole sector was treated by the government plus the general attitude to them, I will be actively discouraging my children from doing it.

I posted this on your other thread in case you hadn't seen it:

I'm a dentist. Mixed NHS and private. It's been a shambles. We shut down on 20th March. As a mixed practice we couldn't furlough our staff. We still had to work ie answer phones/triaging/referring. So distressing not being able to see patients face to face. Some of us were redeployed to other sections of the NHS including Covid wards.,
We had a small NHS payment equivalent in real terms to about a quarter of our income. We didn't qualify for any of the government grants. We still had all of our overheads- rent, rates, energy bills, software, insurance ( of which W couldn't claim), suppliers, leasing agreements, service contracts, HR contracts, indemnity, professional registration.
Our staff had to be paid. I had to stop paying my business loan, my tax bills and the inland revenue.
It's been awful. Our practice has been allowed to open up for urgent care only. Very gradually. In normal times we see about 140 patients in our practice. Due to social distancing we are allowed approximately 30 now.
If we do a procedure that causes an aerosol generating procedure, such as use an air and water spray, a scaler or a drill ( pretty much everything we do) it is a designated high risk for transmitting the virus.
We are in fact, the most dangerous profession in regards to potential spread.
We need to wear enhanced PPE for aerosol procedures. This has involved mask fitting ( costing over £1000 for our practice), respirator type masks or PPF3 type. The disposable kind are approximately £5-10 per use. Plus double gloving, disposable full gowns (£5 each), plus disposable head covers, feet covers ( in some practices). This is for nurse as well as dentist. If using reusable respirator masks, they retail at about £30 each, but will ultimately be more cost effective.
Once the procedure has finished, we must leave the room and not return for 60 minutes to allow for fallow time. Then the staff must don a further set of PPE- apron gloves and visor to deep clean the surgery. The alcohol wipes we use for this are now costing £40 per pack, instead of £5 pre- Covid times.
In the approximately 90 minute time allowed for fallow and cleaning, we used to see perhaps 4 or 5 patients, depending on treatment done, so now we are working at a really significant reduced capacity. We are needing at least three staff members to help with AGPs.
It's been the most stressful and worrying time of my career.
So, in conclusion £7 surcharge is very reasonable.
And it causes me GREAT upset to see this sort of criticism on a public foru

NHS dentists have not been without income for months. They were paid by the government more than 80% of their normal income for the entire time they were shut ( and the missing percentage was due to the fact no need to pay for ppe, amalgams etc) since return they have also been paid at their normal rate, despite being only able to see 6-8 patients per day. Please don’t think they are being hard done to financially. Mine charged me £36 extra for ppe, I was quite shocked to find whilst the dentist had full level 3 mask on the poor dental Nurse only had a regular cheapie disposable.

The dental nurse should have had full enhanced PPE as well. That's shocking!!!
We received 80% of our NHS earnings. Yes that is correct. But we didn't received anything for our private earnings. We didn't qualify for any of the grants. We still had to pay for lab bills that were outstanding. And since we opened up again we now have more lab expenses and the NHS aren't letting us charge patients for NHS lab costs/dentures etc. That's here in Scotland.
We still need to pay professional registration costs out of that. We still need to pay our indemnity. I would say the average dentist is earning a third of what they normally receive in real terms.
And if you are a practice owner you have maintenance and upkeep costs on top of that.
Our practice have had to make four staff members permanently redundant. Let's hope we manage to keep our doors open until the end of the year.

Ps. I don't think necessarily that all the suppliers are profiteering from PPE. Due to the demand a lot has had to be flown in rather than shipped, which has increased the costs.

Xenia, that's a great idea! Because the NHS have paid for the dentist's training and degree, and funded all of their CPD.....oh, they haven't? It costs the dentists minimum 50 grand to qualify? And they have to pay that themselves? Never mind, they should still work for next to nothing for the next ten years- just because they've had the audacity to go into the profession!

@Xenia

May be we need a system where once you qualify as a doctor or dentist in the UK you must work solely for the NHS for 10 years after.

I actually agree with this. It completely pisses me off that we spend huge amounts of money training health professionals only for them to swan off to the US, Australia or NZ with their skills, thereby avoiding repaying their student debt as well.

I never, ever thought you and I would agree on anything @Xenia!

I actually agree with this. It completely pisses me off that we spend huge amounts of money training health professionals only for them to swan off to the US, Australia or NZ with their skills, thereby avoiding repaying their student debt as well.

Again, why just health professionals? Shouldn’t everyone who has received training from this country be made to work in public service to pay it off, rather than swanning off to the private sector or abroad to earn more money?

Lots of teachers train in the U.K. and then go abroad to work. Would you make them stay in the U.K.? And ban teachers from working in private schools for the first 10 years of their career?

Again, why just health professionals?

Because the NHS trains them using its patients. A lot of us, wittingly or unwittingly, have acted as training aids for medical or dental students for whom student loans represent a fraction of the cost of their training. It costs the taxpayer £220k to train a doctor, the least they can do is repay some of that by working for the NHS for a bit.