France transit/quarantine requirements are unfair

[Prochainesortie]

I know 5 families currently in relatively Covid safe European families (Eg Germany, Poland etc) visiting their own families who will now have to quarantine due to transiting France for a few hours and using the Eurotunnel. They won’t stay the night in France just refuel once due to driving distances, they won’t exit the car in the eurotunnel. 1 is my cleaner and she is panicking about no income on return. She doesn’t have online shopping and her children won’t be allowed out of her small flat to exercise for 14 days! The only reason she drove was to be safer and avoid airports! I think the U.K. government is unreasonable given France is such a transit country. More notice should have been given and they need to relax the transit requirements urgently. I agree that spending the night in France might increase the risk but 1-2 refuel/stop should be allowed as long as masks/sanitiser etc are used. My cleaner is driving in a big car with another family, I told her to look into driving through Germany for longer/carrying some fuel if possible. Hopefully she will find a way to avoid the quarantine legally by not having to stop.

Is it “irresponsible” to take £2.5k out of my bank account and throw it in the bin?

That’s is basically what I would have done if I’d not come to France. My holiday was booked and paid for last Autumn! When I travelled the government had declared it was safe to do so. Therefore I could get no refund or insurance payout.

I haven’t seen another human being for a few days now. Those I have seen before then and those I will see in the next few days will be wearing masks, having used sanitiser and socially distancing in a supermarket. Much safer than in England!

By imposing restrictions in this way the government sees a lot of “noise” about the methods being used to “keep us safe”. If they’d simply banned foreign travel so that people could claim on their insurance their wouldn’t have been the “noise” from the general population and less publicity about them “keeping us safe”.

If they wanted to keep us safe they would NOT have opened pubs, they would NOT be offering financial incentives to go to restaurants.

I haven’t been to a pub or restaurant since March (if not February) that would be more irresponsible than sitting in the middle of nowhere in France.

Those I have seen before then and those I will see in the next few days will be wearing masks, having used sanitiser and socially distancing in a supermarket. Much safer than in England!

Much safer? Do bring back some of this superb hand sanitiser and masks that are so superior to the ones we have here then. Of course it's no safer, you are just trying to justify it to yourself.

I have only seen one person not wearing a mask and they were an elderly man on oxygen being helped to shop by the small Tesco express staff.

Yes Outing, however there will be plenty who have not been as careful.

Rules cannot be made on an individual basis. Virus is spreading in France and Spain. It is invisible. If it is brought back in any quantity it will be in every community in the UK, like happened after February half term, with spikes everywhere, and schools wont be able to reopen.

For all we know OP's cleaner has been hanging out with her extended family and has not been nearly as cautious about social distancing as you have.

Much safer? Do bring back some of this superb hand sanitiser and masks that are so superior to the ones we have here then. Of course it's no safer, you are just trying to justify it to yourself. *

At my local supermarket in SE London the majority of people aren’t wearing masks, There is no sanitiser at the entrance, the staff aren’t wearing masks, there is nothing to wipe the trolley handle, the distancing markers are being ignored.

The masks and sanitiser aren’t superior but their use is strictly enforced.

For all we know OP's cleaner has been hanging out with her extended family and has not been nearly as cautious about social distancing as you have.*

Yet if she came back direct from Poland she wouldn’t have to quarantine. Just goes to show how arbitrary the rules are.

@Sirzy

The virus doesn’t care about borders or politics or anything else. I wouldn’t blame any country for closing borders at the moment because we need to take steps to protect people.

Can you explain how imposing a quaratine on someone who's spent, say, 4 hours mostly driving through France and only stopped at a petrol station, protects the country better than not imposing quarantines on people travelling a few hours by plane from still "safe" countries where cases are rising.

There seems to be a worrying lack of empathy to many of these posts. Completely unable to put themselves in the position of people from less affluent parts of the world who are forced to make difficult decisions and endure long separations from loved ones, including children, to survive economically.

It's a total "I'm alright Jack" mentality disguised as smug faux concern about a pandemic.

That was her choice to send her DD back to Poland. She's not the only parent in this situation whether they are hundreds or thousands of miles away from each other.

Many of my friends are/have moved back home (overseas) for a variety of reasons, although travel restrictions aren't one of the reasons. How the government has shit on people is a big motivator; increase of taxes to pay for government dodgy deals; corruption that is worse here than in their own countries; it was always part of the plan to live here for X years and then go back etc.

The government backed down with travel due to the increasing pressure from the travel industry. Many other countries have proper isolation instead of leave airport and use public transport to return home.

I find it interesting to see how people view artificial borders that mean nothing for the virus, when each country has a patchy distribution of cases. The UK itself has areas under special measures. But then treats other entire countries as a whole unit, even when those countries have imposed special measures or lockdowns on the affected areas, which mean that anyone from there wouldn't be able to travel freely anyway, or tourism wouldn't be allowed.

Particularly when the so called controlled measure (quarantine) is so poorly implemented as to be almost useless and not monitored properly at all.

And how people can tie themselves in knots to justify such arbitrary and poorly implemented rules.

The reopening school plan is also another reason why friends from overseas are now fucking off back to their home country, or moving back earlier than planned, sending their kids back to the home country.

They read the plans here and are just as confused as the rest of us. Read the plans for their home country and the plans are better and go well beyond what we are giving our schools including money from the government!

Some are in catering, rather than the eat scheme they would have prefered the money to go to education. THe eat scheme is delaying the inevitable for some companies, and when they are forced to close to keep the schools open, they will have to return home because the job will have gone.

THere isn't as much construction going on at the moment, so again, many from countries like Poland are going back home. Nothing to do with travel restrictions.

Puffinshop it does seem bizarre that locals were treated differently to tourists. I suppose we were unlikely to mix with many people as we don't know anyone in Iceland (Apartments with lock box and self drive) but still...

It is inevitable that many expatriates will want to return home at some point. Most people feel more comfortable in their own culture/country.

It is not evidence for failings in Britain, despite your ranting. I have worked in a number of countries on three continents and speak four foreign languages well. I liked aspects of each place, but was still happy to return home and raise my children here.

Inter alia, I wonder about your statement "THere isn't as much construction going on at the moment". This is certainly not true where I live. Construction sites have been full on since about two weeks into lockdown.

Covid19 seems to have created a whole new rant for Remainers and others who were unhappy with the autumn election result. Governments can only do so much, especially in countries with high levels of personal freedoms. It is up to us. We reduce risk and we prioritise risk. Opening schools is more important than travelling overseas for summer holidays.

@CouldBeOuting

* Much safer? Do bring back some of this superb hand sanitiser and masks that are so superior to the ones we have here then. Of course it's no safer, you are just trying to justify it to yourself. *

At my local supermarket in SE London the majority of people aren’t wearing masks, There is no sanitiser at the entrance, the staff aren’t wearing masks, there is nothing to wipe the trolley handle, the distancing markers are being ignored.

The masks and sanitiser aren’t superior but their use is strictly enforced.

Then that's an issue you need to take up with the supermarket management as it's not the case at the supermarkets here - Sainsbury, Tesco, Morrisons and Waitrose all have the sanitiser, masks are enforced and there are sanitisers to clean the trolleys. I haven't been in Morrisons but I've been told by a friend who works there.

Many of us have enjoyed brilliant holidays in roasting temperatures right here in the UK this summer.

The need to travel far and wide for sunny weather has not been necessary this spring or summer, and so I can't understand why take such a stressful decision to go to France etc in the middle of a pandemic and return to weeks of quarantine when the cornish beaches are nicer anyway! Makes no sense to me at all.

Makes no sense to me at all.
Unless you want to see your children / parents

Kynance Cove is incredible!

Then that's an issue you need to take up with the supermarket management as it's not the case at the supermarkets here - Sainsbury, Tesco, Morrisons and Waitrose all have the sanitiser, masks are enforced and there are sanitisers to clean the trolleys. I haven't been in Morrisons but I've been told by a friend who works there.

Actually yes, the Waitrose did have sanitiser at the door but that is a 20 minute drive away. My walkable shops are two Co-Ops, a Tesco Express and a Londis - no sanitiser. Even Bluewater... a massive mall is unable to enforce mask wearing. Just take a look at the comments on their social media- loads of people saying they won’t go again because of the lack of masks and distancing.

so I can't understand why take such a stressful decision to go to France etc in the middle of a pandemic and return to weeks of quarantine when the cornish beaches are nicer anyway! Makes no sense to me at all.

Because having spent my holiday budget booking my holiday last Autumn I can’t afford to spend the same again. PLUS a GOOD place in the U.K. is expensive. I spent a week in Yorkshire in February half term. Nice self catering cottage, two bedrooms, one bathroom, hot tub. £1200 for the week - nearly double that for a week in August. Currently in France - three bedroom, two bathroom, huge plot of land, swimming pool, table tennis, boules, Barbecue, totally private, wall to wall sunshine - £1200 per week plus travel.

I know you can book cheaper in both countries but even the food is cheaper here.

I have been trying to book a holiday on the U.K. coast for weeks.

Actually most of tHe beaches in Brittany are superior to Cornish ones In terms of not being packed.

Outing...not just the shops but individuals.

I went into a large Sainsbury's in Central London yesterday and there was 100% mask wearing. In Dorset where I have been for the past couple of weeks, it is barely 30%. Even where the entrance was monitored, people removed them as soon as they were in. Interestingly a couple of young people I spoke to seemed to assume Covid was just a London thing. My guess is that infection rates in Dorset have remained low and people did not live through the three weeks of constant sirens were experienced in London. Those people happily ignored lockdown and would do the same if they went to Spain. At some point they will be exposed and will spread the virus. Much easier to clamp down if it is a localised outbreak, say a nightclub or a food processing plant and contagion is in a limited area. Harder if the contagion was somewhere in Spain and people bringing it back are dispersed all over the UK, not wearing masks until the R rate is out of control.

The priority is to get kids back into school and the economy moving again. Foreign holidays can wait.

needmore
The data map for covid deaths shows why the folks of Dorset are so laid back about masks.
When I looked at the map I could identify most of the dead from my FB and linkedin feeds
because there have been so few

Foreign holidays can indeed wait
but school age children who have not seen their parents for many months during a pandemic is rather a different matter

Listening, exactly.

However if normal numbers had been to Spain etc during the summer, the picture could change quickly. If every village had someone who had sat close to someone asymptomatic on a plane it would be all over the place before people were aware that they needed to change their behaviour. And hospitals would be swamped.

Our flat in Dorset is in a small block so when we went down after lockdown I checked with the building management whether there was anyone shielding and whether any special measures were needed. They laughed. There were at least a couple of residents who had carried on as normal, parties etc since the outset. A couple of others were shielding but their needs had been ignored. Out of curiosity I innocently asked the main offender, a young Australian woman, about lockdown. She said, with a completely straight face, that the virus was only in London and that it was caught on the tube. Lockdown had not applied to them. Amazingly the student neighbour said more or less the same thing.

Sadly if individuals are unable understand and allow for risk, the Government, of whatever stripe, will have to impose blanket measures. Its weird. I think, along with many people I know, I caught it in London before lockdown, so am not that worried personally. But it is frustrating to see people make no effort and decide that rules don't apply to them. The worst was a couple of young men on the train, masks under their chins, talking loudly and sitting opposite a couple of ladies aged about 80. What right do they have to risk other people's lives.

In terms of OPs cleaner, there was a solution. We have all known about the possibility self isolate when you get home. For some people who really need to travel, that will be worthwhile. And from what OP has said she sounds as if she does not like England or the English much, so perhaps it will all work out in the end.

In terms of OPs cleaner, there was a solution
Yup
an English primary school will have to find an English person to clean their toilets
after relying on a Pole for the last few years
be careful what you wish for

She is flying back.

My understanding is that lots of people want work, and there are huge number of applications for even entry level jobs, particuarly from school leavers and new graduates. Why should an English person not be as good as a zenophobic Pole who clearly hates it here, sounding off about Brexit etc. I understood that she had already made up her mind to leave because she thought the English were so horrid.

I am agog that a bargain holiday is more important than not spreading this bastard disease.