AIBU to think this confuses professional boundaries?

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Sorry for the long post but don’t want to drip feed.

I work a full time job and I’m also a trustee for a charity that runs the local community centre. As part of the centre we have a cafe that used to employee three members of staff prior to lockdown. At the time that lockdown occurred we were in the middle of a restructuring and so the end result was that all three jobs were lost.

Since being allowed to re-open we initially decided to trial it with me, and another trustee, voluntarily working in the cafe. We both have food hygiene and previous experience in catering (she worked in kitchens prior to DC and I did kitchen work while at uni.)

It was then decided to bring one member of staff back in to support. This member of staff is being paid. I understand why me and the other trustee can’t be paid for our contribution.

Today was her first day and she literally walked into the kitchen, looked at the bacon my friend had cooked and said “That looks fucking disgusting, did you cook that?” She then tired some mushrooms and said “I’m not serving them, they taste tinned”

This continued throughout the day, with her completely re-arranging the kitchen halfway through because “she’s used to to it a different way”. Almost everything we did was met with some sort of “fuck this...” “Shitting that...”. Throughout the shift she also refused instruction from me and the other trusted, things like “Can you use the other eggs, they’ve got a shorter date.” Was met with “No, I won’t” because they had been stored in a fridge.

Anyway, at the end of the shift, I had a word with the other trustees and expressed that I was quite upset. I was told:

“That’s just how she is, kitchens are like that.”

“When your in the kitchen, you work for her as she’s staff and you’re a volunteer”

I took exception at the second statement. From my POV, although I’m happy to take direction from her in the kitchen, me and my friend are trustees of the charity and we did not work for her. I believe it is confusing the professional boundaries to say I work for her in the kitchen, but as soon as we step into the hall i’m senior to her again?

I tried to explain that it’d be no different from the CEO at my paid work covering for an absent colleague in my department. I might give him direction and instruction on what to do that day: but I’d always have to remember that I still work for him.

AIBU to think that:

a) I don’t work for her at any time.
b) She shouldn’t be swearing at members of the board, even if that’s the normal staff culture in that kitchen

As an additional, I did mention when this was being discussed that I might see it differently as I’m the only one with management experience (The other trustee’s in today are all from blue collar backgrounds - which I’m not knocking! While my paid job is in senior management in a corporate environment.) I was called a snob.

Sorry for the reproduction of war and peace!

I would be saying that you are stepping down from the role with immediate effect.
Regardless of positions in the company, you do not deserve to be treated in such.
It’s like saying that a police man should accept being abused because it’s part of the role.

I'm not sure about the professional boundaries, but she sounds like she's a nightmare. I would sack her for being rude, disrespectful, and obnoxious. No volunteer should be treated like that, trustee, or not.

If the trustees won't sack her, then I would politely decline to continue as a volunteer.

While some kitchens are like that, they shouldn't be. Had you been paid staff you'd have been right to complain your boss was being abusive.

And she's an idiot if she thinks it's a good idea to treat the trustees that way, whether or not she is officially in charge.

I think that her behaviour is appalling and would put off anyone volunteering and I do not think all professional kitchens are a sweary environment
I would resign from being a trustee and find somewhere else that values volunteers and make it clear why. I would also take exception at being called a ‘snob’ and make a formal complaint.

I dare say the charity has a code of conduct too

I don't think it's really a case of professional boundaries. If she was actually professional you wouldn't have a problem. She could be "in charge" in the kitchen and it wouldn't be a problem. As it is she's clearly unprofessional so it's never going to work. I don't think I could carry on under that regime.

Stop volunteering and tell them why

She doesn't work for you as a trustee though, she's right. Your role is to govern the charity and as such you are way outwith the reporting lines of day to day work.

However, this is a total shit show and needs sorted. For example, if she's disciplined for her language (say a member of the public overhears and complains) the fact a trustee is working side by side means you probably wouldn't be able to fairly hear an appeal. You need to report in writing to the head of the charity and suggest a governance-based solution. For example, that written standards are updated, the person is retrained as at the moment her behaviour is putting the charity at risk of complaint from public or other staff members. I don't think you'll be able to do that and comfortably stay doing the work though.

And looking at the thread title again, while I appear to be disagreeing with you - YANBU and it is muddling professional boundaries.

Does she think shrs Gordon bloody Ramsay? I don't think a community centre cafe is quite the same environment as the high-pressure kitchens in Michelin starred restaurants, and I don't mean to sound rude there, I mean she seems to think she's a lot more high up than she probably is. There us absolutely no need for her to be treated volunteers so badly and the fact that your complaint was dismissed isn't on at all. I think resigning from the role as volunteer might help to get the message across that this member of staff has acted very poorly.

You need to step away from this as a volunteer. Regardless of whether you are in the board or not; she should not be speaking to volunteers this way.

I would also complain to her line manager: this behaviour in the workplace is not acceptable and could leave the charity liable to an employee or volunteer bringing a case against it

I have been in your position and I chose to step down as no one was listening to me. It was such freedom! Of course the other person was such a nightmare they parted ways after a few months but I refused all offers to return. If people don't listen to you in a work or volunteer capacity you either put up or leave. I wasn't being paid to take that shit so I left.

@Goosefoot

While some kitchens are like that, they shouldn't be. Had you been paid staff you'd have been right to complain your boss was being abusive.

And she's an idiot if she thinks it's a good idea to treat the trustees that way, whether or not she is officially in charge.

This 100%

The normalisation of bullying in kitchens needs to come to and end.

Her behaviour generally is entirely unacceptable and I’d not want her working for the organisation.

@Dylaninthemovies1 before lockdown, her official line manager was my friend the other trustee in the kitchen, as she was the designated “limo trustee” for the cafe. (And who was also upset today)

At the moment she doesn’t really have a line manager per se, as on paper she’s also a volunteer... but being paid “expenses”

This all sounds like a very confusing set up.

Were all three members of staff made redundant? And then one was made unredundant? How was she chosen?

What is the line management structure and job roles? Whether you're paid or not or a trustee or not is kind of irrelevant - who is the kitchen manager?

She should be in charge in the kitchen. Rearranging and indicating how the day should run should fall to the person with the most expertise.

The swearing and just being difficult is not ok. I would ask yourself if it started after you tried to manage her. If so, it was an inappropriate reaction, but hopefully an isolated reaction and it can be dealt with easily. If it was from the start, you have a bigger problem.

OP, I think all your talk of boundaries and hierarchies has muddied the actual issue - she shouldn't be speaking to anyone like that regardless of whether they're colleagues (paid or unpaid), customers, trustees or anyone else.

That said, I do wonder whether your expectations around hierarchy and/or the notion that the trustee volunteers are doing the paid staff some sort of favour (either by volunteering or by paying them) has been picked up by this person and whether that might be contributing to her attitude.

@SandieCheeks

Prior to lockdown; there were three members of staff in the kitchen. My friend, the other trustee, was line manager for the kitchen as the designated trustee.

Just before lockdown all contacts were terminated and we were in the process of re-interviewing, internal and external candidates for new roles (including a kitchen supervisor). This was never completed so at the end of the notice period (in the middle of lockdown) the contracts ended.

She was the only one available to come back.

I was told today she doesn’t have a “line manager” as she is a volunteer... expect she is being paid expenses equivalent to £9ph... this was all decided in a meeting I had to give me apologies for.

Now I’ve seen that written down it looks like a tax fiddle. Ducking hell, I’m going to have to flag that up aren’t I!?!

This sounds like a total mess OP, I would be careful about making people redundant and then bringing them back on expenses which are actually wages in disguise.
This could run into both employment and tax law difficulties I would have thought.

She shouldn't be swearing at anybody who volunteers regardless of them being a board member or not.

Now I’ve seen that written down it looks like a tax fiddle

It sounds like more than just a tax fiddle - it looks like someone is trying to suggest she isn't an employee at all.

Yes this all sounds really dodgy?

On what grounds were the staff contracts "terminated"? How long had they been employed? There are legal processes necessary for redundancy situations and you definitely can't sack people then offer them their jobs back as "volunteers"

Are you actually a volunteer or are you getting expenses too?

The staff had been with us less than two years; so they were just given notice. Me and the other trustee in the kitchen are in receipt of no expenses what so ever

No wonder the staff member is grumpy after being treated so badly!

This person sounds like such a jumped up fool - acting like she's Marco Pierre or Gordon in the 90s. Embarrassing.

Yes kitchens can be "robust" but in those environments it's akin to creating live edible theatre. There's a sense of hierarchy inherent in following and executing the menu designed by the maestro and the speed and precision of execution leads to the robustness and tension.

This is a community cafe. That doesn't mean it is exempt from high standards. It just means this person doesn't understand her audience, that she is working alongside the guardians of the organisation. It's pathetic in the extreme to think you'd pitch yourself as before, knowing that information. But some people just don't know better.

I think often in these situations, trustees expect paid employees to have the same attitude that they have themselves.

You are forgetting that: this is her livelihood, the organisation has treated her poorly very recently, she doesn't have the time or income for a passion project.

I worked for a similar organisation when I was very young and was treated appallingly. Every second person that walked in was a committee member who didn't hide just how inferior they considered me to be, I wasn't paid minimum wage, I was expected to turn up at the drop of a hat and to be grateful.

That's without the "boss" and committee member (old enough to be my grandfather) that used to pinch my bum every time he walked behind me.