Catchment areas - I don’t understand?!

[Rosegoldnights]

DH and I recently moved house to an area with several ‘Outstanding’ primary schools, one ‘Outstanding’ secondary and one ‘Needs Improvement’. I’ve been looking at catchment areas out of interest in anticipation of DC and I am baffled to see that the primary school which is about 0.2miles (5 min walk if that) away is not our ‘catchment’ school - instead if we were applying this year it would be one nearly a mile away across town, which tends to feed into the ‘Needs Improvement’ secondary school.

Clearly by the time we have DC at school (several years away) the schools may be different and maybe catchment areas will shift but can someone explain to me why some catchment areas seem so illogical?

The catchment map for the better secondary school includes a lot of outlying villages which are a good 15 minute drive away in some cases yet doesn’t include our road which would be about a 10 minute walk.

Am just interested to know if this is normal?? AIBU to think catchment areas surely should be more about distance and not arbitrary lines drawn?

Also has anyone been successful in getting DC into their nearest school despite it not being catchment somehow?

Expecting I am probably going to be flamed for a) over thinking and b) being naive but it’s the first time I’ve looked into this. I just expected our DC would go to the one a 5 min walk away...!

It's also worth remembering how admissions work. Depending on area, you list between 3-6 schools. So if you prefer the non catchment school, you can list that first, and your catchment school below it. The schools don't know where they are on your list, just that you applied. So you can't lose out on your catchment school just because you listed non catchment higher- the preference order comes into play if you qualify for places at two or more schools, in which case you get your highest rank school.

Am in Scotland where catchment areas are very important
Always remember at a baby group where a woman was banging on about how they had paid x for their house but worth it as in catchment for best school
Everyone was thinking'no it's not'

School popularity shrinks catchment area over time as families move closer and closer to that school. Pushing up prices.

Catchments vary massively.

The catchment for Mountbatten School in Hampshire runs right up to the school gate of Oasis Lordshill in Southampton

so kids who could cross the road and walk in the door
get the bus 4 miles to another school
with good reason

You need to look at what YOUR LEA does
as they are all different

The primary school my children attended was outstanding and was always oversubscribed.

2 years ago they informed parents that they would now have an actual catchment area defined on a map which showed the other primary schools in their trust and the catchment for those too. Priority is now given to those living in catchment.

This has pissed a lot of parents off living on a very expensive for the area, new build estate because geographically they are very close to the outstanding primary but it isn't their closest school.

The outstanding primary has a small built up area around the school but the catchment stretches out a couple of miles in one direction toward a more rural setting, and anyone living out there, this is their closest primary. There is also LA boundary issue right near those rural houses.

Our villages have a percentage priority to the town schools. As in the town school has to take a certain percentage of village applicants as otherwise the travel is too far to the other town.

That said, we live in one town but schools are the other side for secondary so our catchment secondary is in the next town over!

@CottonSock

School popularity shrinks catchment area over time as families move closer and closer to that school. Pushing up prices.

Admission areas change year on year but true catchments do not. It is a fairly big deal to re-draw a catchment, requiring public consultation a full year ahead. It therefore does not happen often.

Note 'catchment' can mean two different things.

In some areas (eg where I live in Hants) each primary school has a pre-determined 'priority admission area' which is often an odd shape (ie not a perfect circle centred on the school.) If you live in that priority area you get priority above other similar families who live outside the area, even if they actually live closer to the school. This priority admission area is sometimes colloquially referred to as the 'catchment area'.

In other places there isn't this priority area. In those cases 'catchment area' just means the rough circle around the school where children applying tend to get in on distance. This 'catchment area' grows or shrinks each year dependent on demand.

It's also good to be aware that the Ofsted framework has changed this year. Some schools with outstanding under the old system have faired badly under the new one. Although inspections are on hold atm.
The school that req improvement will have had time, attention and money put into it. Possibly a new Head.
Why don't you request the last 12 months of available Governor Meeting Minutes to get a flavour of what the schools are like? (obviously in Sept when staff are back and giving them 30 days min to produce it)

It’s not just the catchment or admissions that are weird, the qualification for free school buses can be bizarre too - in our village you only qualify for the free secondary school bus if you live in one half of the village, but if you live in the other half you have to pay.

@TeenPlusTwenties

Note 'catchment' can mean two different things.

In some areas (eg where I live in Hants) each primary school has a pre-determined 'priority admission area' which is often an odd shape (ie not a perfect circle centred on the school.) If you live in that priority area you get priority above other similar families who live outside the area, even if they actually live closer to the school. This priority admission area is sometimes colloquially referred to as the 'catchment area'.

In other places there isn't this priority area. In those cases 'catchment area' just means the rough circle around the school where children applying tend to get in on distance. This 'catchment area' grows or shrinks each year dependent on demand.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you here - people do use the term 'catchment' for the second definition that you give but they are wrong to do so. The rough admissions area is not a catchment area and it causes huge problems for schools when people think that it is. I have had to explain the difference to parents in appeal hearings.

If the school is an academy, they set their own admission policies. Different LEAs set different criteria. I live in a place with no catchments as mostly academies, neighbouring authority mostly retained by LEA so catchments and feeder schools. High schools near me had different definitions of sibling in their criteria as an example of how much they can differ. All you can do is look at the admission criteria for the schools you are interested in, the admissions data and take it from there.

@zigaziga

In my area of London, not sure about all areas though, it literally is as the crow flies so there is no catchment as such but the closer you live to a school the better your chances. Much more logical.

We have this where we live (NW coast).

If you live near an LEA boundary
all maps are off

A local one form entry school had 26 siblings this year and 3 Sen, 1 space left for any others.

Ignore what estate agents or Rightmove say about getting into a school.

We have a large new build estate and Rightmove lists my children’s school (Ofsted good, excellent local reputation, one form entry) as nearest school. Which it is but no child would have got in from there (under distance criteria) for the past 7 years. New estate is just over a mile away, I’d estimate that you’d now need to live within 1/3 of a mile to have a good chance of getting in.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you here - people do use the term 'catchment' for the second definition that you give but they are wrong to do so. The rough admissions area is not a catchment area and it causes huge problems for schools when people think that it is.

That's why I put 'catchment area' in quotes!

People use the term in two different ways, so you have to be very clear which you mean. On threads like this you can't just put your fingers in your ears and go la la la and pretend people don't use it in two ways colloquially.

@TeenPlusTwenties

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you here - people do use the term 'catchment' for the second definition that you give but they are wrong to do so. The rough admissions area is not a catchment area and it causes huge problems for schools when people think that it is.

That's why I put 'catchment area' in quotes!

People use the term in two different ways, so you have to be very clear which you mean. On threads like this you can't just put your fingers in your ears and go la la la and pretend people don't use it in two ways colloquially.

Why a strange thing to say. I’ve posted twice before on this thread to clarify the definition. You said ‘ This priority admission area is sometimes colloquially referred to as the 'catchment area'.’ That’s not colloquial use. It’s the actual definition. The colloquial use is when ‘catchment area’ is used to describe straight-line admission, as in all London boroughs, and it is this which causes us a lot of problems.

*what

Thanks all! What I don’t understand is why in these areas where so many schools are over subscribed, why you never hear of new schools being built yet there’s always 100s of new houses? How long does it take to realise a new school is needed or at least an expansion to existing ones (but for small primaries etc I know not always possible)

In our small town there has been a lot of development in recent years.
First they made the infant+juniors school into 3 form entry instead of 2, then they expanded one of the primary schools from single form to 2 form. That is an additional 7x30x2 places = 420 school places once the changes rippled through.

At about the same time, both the secondary schools started taking an extra tutor group as needed, so again another 5x30x2 = 300 places.

House builders often have to pay money towards school expansion.

however, they only expand schools if there is a general shortage of places in the area. If 3 schools are 'over subscribed' but another 2 are less popular and have spaces, they'd expect the less popular to be full before making more spaces.

How long does it take to realise a new school is needed or at least an expansion to existing ones (but for small primaries etc I know not always possible)
Under the Tory rules thank you Michael Gove and Dominic Cummings all new schools have to be Academies.
Councils are not allowed to provide schools where there is need.

@DrCoconut

In our area catchment children get priority over those with a sibling at the school. Hence from September I'm expected to get my kids to 2 different schools 1.5 miles ish apart with 5 minutes difference in start and finish times 😫. Council have said it's not their problem, I have to make it work. (Younger one has been allocated catchment school rather than the one where his brother goes). They are reception and y5 with SN so can't walk alone.

So they should, otherwise people get the first child in and then move further away to cheaper areas, and children who live in the catchment can't get their children in. If you already live out of catchment when you choose the school for your first child, then you should consider that you may not be successful for subsequent children

@ListeningQuietly

How long does it take to realise a new school is needed or at least an expansion to existing ones (but for small primaries etc I know not always possible) Under the Tory rules thank you Michael Gove and Dominic Cummings all new schools have to be Academies. Councils are not allowed to provide schools where there is need.

I didn’t know this!!

There are 4 schools nearer than our catchment school. I'm told it's because they rebuilt the school on a new site but catchments never changed. Luckily it's the best of the 5 so I'm not complaining but also means those living on the same road as the school aren't in it's catchment