Disappointed secondary schools are reopening

[wovengrass]

I'm hoping for a sensible exchange of ideas on this.
I understand the importance of children missing out on learning, but I can't help but feel that a full reopening of all secondary schools in the UK at the same time is madness.
I strongly feel that it would have been better to spend time/money on making home learning a realistic and standardised solution, as well as putting plans in place for the children that need further support. That way if any future outbreaks happen we aren't just hoping for the best and blindly following this idea that "schools must be the last place to close no matter what."

I also can't get my head around the logistics, locally. The local secondary that my nephew attends (there are several large ones near to me) has over 1000 students, many rely on public transport to get there. With reduced space on transport due to social distancing, I wonder how children will actually all make it to school on time? Many schools are also not allowing children who are late to enter, to avoid the crossing of year group bubbles.

Throw also into the mix that many adult will be relying on the same transport to return to work. I'm genuinely wondering how on earth it is realistic?

I think primary and nursery schools are a different thing entirely, and obviously childcare is a factor then also. But putting 1000 teenagers/young adults + teacher staff into a building with no masks and no country-wide home learning plan if things go wrong, seems absolutely nuts to me.

Just wondering what others think about this?

Teachers would have naff all to do with it.

@LadyCatStark

Oh FFS, there’s not been a single corona virus death in 5 weeks across our entire health authority, yet we should keep all our children at home?

We've gone from wanting to not overwhelm the healthcare system to needing to totally eradicate this at all costs, no matter what.

You seriously think that people don't "want" life back to normal?
It's a pity the sky won't fall in the way some people truly seem to want.
What an odd conclusion you have drawn. But still, come back in a few weeks' time and let's see where we're all at. Hopefully, it will all be going swimmingly and the USA is an anomaly.

Well teachers have been blamed for many things over the last few months for things that had nothing to do with them, so I'm not holding my breath (and I am not a teacher)

@CallmeAngelina

You seriously think that people don't "want" life back to normal? It's a pity the sky won't fall in the way some people truly seem to want. What an odd conclusion you have drawn. But still, come back in a few weeks' time and let's see where we're all at. Hopefully, it will all be going swimmingly and the USA is an anomaly.

Yes, yes, I do. LOL @ the US. I was there in June and part of July. Contrary to what the media would have you believe, it was also pretty much business as usual there and I was in a so-called hotspot, there are no bodies in the streets, the healthcare system is not overwhelmed, people wore masks and went to shops, restaurants, lots of things without fear. But that doesn't fit with a doom mongering agenda.

I’m with you OP

I think secondary schools should have opened with social distancing at least to start with. Ds had his first day back today 1300+ children and social distancing limited to “each year” so a bubble of 200+ kids! When I picked him up they were all streaming out in big groups and the parents were catching up with others through open car windows.

The numbers are low here at the moment but if they start rising I will keep ds off. Both dh and I are at risk and ds is happy learning from home.

@CallmeAngelina

The Government doesn't appear to think we need a Plan B, as they keep parroting "Schools are safe," thinking if they say it often enough, people will believe it. It seems it's working.

It's worked with everything else. Otherwise why is everyone blindly following the rules?

Sorry your kid is unable l to follow online learning. If they have some sort of learning disability preventing them from achieving then using your (disgusting) rationale could I suggest your child might also be considered dispensable?

@SickToDeathOfThis

To be fair, I think it’s a pretty rare teenager (learning disability or not) that is capable of motivating his or herself to follow independent online learning for months on end. Not non-existent, but rare.

That’s why it’s legally compulsory for under 18s to be in full-time education. We generally agree as a society that they aren’t capable of teaching themselves.

I really like the idea of the government developing home schooling alternatives, but I don’t think the government is capable of developing a home schooling platform that would be suitable as a replacement for schools. They are notoriously bad at ambitious IT projects. And I doubt we currently have the teaching staff that could adapt it to it wholesale, even if the government gave them the resources they would need.

I also think homeschooling as a way to avoid kids socialising ignores the need kids have to socialise - it’s important for their mental health and emotional development and secondary school is a critical time for this.

So I’m in agreement with the idea of schools being opened up and then last(ish) on the list of things to close as a general approach. I would like it if the government would give LEAs (and others) funds to start developing home schooling support so that there is the possibility of viable home schooling support alternatives in the future. I think we need to see quite a few alternatives developed and then pick the best ones to move forward with rather than have the government try and develop a single uniform platform off the bat.

Those that object on the basis of kids mixing with each other... what do you think they've been doing for the past few months? Teenagers everywhere are seeing their friends, who in turn are seeing other friends, who in turn are seeing families etc. We're not going from a situation where everyone is living in household bubbles to a mixing pot - they're all out there together (with no social distancing) already. Surely far better that they do it in school??

We are in the worst recession ever. That’s a fact. If the children don’t go back to school, 100,000s more jobs will be lost (above the very high number already predicted), the recession will get worst, more people will die (suicide etc.) and in all likelihood we will have millions more children in absolute poverty. The effects of this will be 10 fold the effects of covid. We have to get the economy moving. It’s not ideal but being practical they will have to open and homeschooling is not an option for the majority of the population. We have to get the economy moving again.

That’s why it’s legally compulsory for under 18s to be in full-time education. We generally agree as a society that they aren’t capable of teaching themselves.

👏👏👏

I don't think teachers imagine that there will be bodies in the street, but it only takes 2 positive test results in a school to be treated as an outbreak, which could burst a bubble, which in a Secondary could be a whole year group, which would mean that year group self isolating for 2 weeks, and this could be repeated on and on, in areas where rates are rising. So all the working parents saying schools should open may find the school closing very quickly. It is not hoping for doom and gloom, it is being realistic.

Teachers also don't want schools not to open, but they want schools to have more measures in them to hopefully reduce the risk of health to everyone in schools including staff and pupils who have just come off the shielding list, and to hope that schools can stay open for as long as possible. And if schools have to close temporarily that there is something in place to ensure all children have access to an education.

@InDeoEstMeaFiducia

Pretty fucking sick of secondary school children, they are still children or we wouldn't have pesky little laws about being able to work full-time at 14 and the like thrown under a bus for all this. They are just as important as primary and nursery age children. They deserve full-time school education to be available to them if they and their family chose to take it up. If you don't then homeschool your kids. Thankfully, you don't get to decide for everyone else.

They are referred to as children because they are not young children that need an adult watching over them 24/7

You can't leave a 6yo home alone to do school work, but unless your child has SN, there's something wrong if you won't leave your 16yo home alone.

@Dollyparton3. There's an awful lot of misinformation in your post...

Presumably at some point, it will dawn on people as they stare out at what’s left of the economy, the millions without jobs, the millions without proper education, the massive mental health issues etc. etc. that just as for humans since they first set foot upon the earth, we’re going to have to live with this virus as there is no other choice. As a pp said, it’s either a functioning society or strict social distancing.

Teachers also don't want schools not to open, but they want schools to have more measures in them to hopefully reduce the risk of health to everyone in schools including staff and pupils who have just come off the shielding list, and to hope that schools can stay open for as long as possible. And if schools have to close temporarily that there is something in place to ensure all children have access to an education

Totally agree. It’s not that I don’t want schools open in September, I absolutely do. Just want some measures put in place to make the likelihood of future closures less likely.

I’m on the fence about this, I’d love my son who has asd to get back to his routine, he’s already behind anyway from before, I am worried it may increase, although literally all kids in our town and the next are meeting up anyway, see them walking past my house in like groups of about 10. It’s a damned if you do and damned if you don’t situation.

I understand your concern, and I do agree there needs to be a feasible plan b ready. However children have been failed throughout the last few months. They need schools to reopen, they need a chance to pick up where they left off.
By not sending children back you're running the risk of all schooling years changing, younger generations being years behind that of the older ones in terms of level of education.
Children need their peers, they need to get out of their houses and have some semblance of normality.
If as a parent you're worried, pull them from school and home educate.

What do your nephews parents think OP?

Im in Edinburgh and two of my children are in high school but year of the years have went a different day over three days they are all back next week but start and finish times are different so it does work out

Totally agree with OP. We can't just pretend that this virus is going to melt away to suit us, because it would be convenient to run schools as normal.

If the kids go back on crowded buses, to crowded classrooms, well, we might start out with low community levels of virus, but it won't stay that way very long.

Two words, exponential growth.

I know of schools in America where they get a couple of days in school a week and then the rest is home learning for now. This to me seems like the best option, at least for high school students who don't need the childcare, as face to face time can always be increased if things go well, but equally this decreases the risk of overloading everything at once and then the schools closing completely again. I agree with you OP that the biggest problem is the lack of a backup plan for if schools do have to close, and I fear that there will be a repeat of what happened when schools closed initially, with big disparities between schools in terms of what home learning and support was offered.

They are referred to as children because they are not young children that need an adult watching over them 24/7

You can't leave a 6yo home alone to do school work, but unless your child has SN, there's something wrong if you won't leave your 16yo home alone.

So how very silly of society to deem it necessary for secondary school to be full-time education at all, much less to the age of 16 and more recently, 18, since they can just be left alone with no adult supervision. What could possibly go wrong? Hey, at least it won't be Covid!

One night my son had to go to hospital after the car he was travelling in had an accident, police at the door, all that. I asked if both my husband and I could go, DD2 was 13. The police wouldn't let her stay alone on her own. But now it's fine, never mind the whole education thing.

@littlealexhorne not all secondary school kids are old enough to stay home alone all day, my 11 year old has just started S1, I wouldn’t be leaving her all day so would need childcare? Or to give up my
Job. If everyone was in the same boat there simply isn’t enough childminders or nursery provision to cope and not everyone has family to help

Its not as simple as saying build a platform to run teaching virtually. Some children don't have any laptops or pc and their parents can't afford them and nor can the government afford to keep spending billions of pounds. What happens when they break them are we going to just replace it?

Some live in areas with bad internet, that is not a simple fix that a huge infrastructure job. Billions of pounds.

Some live in homes where there isn't enough space. Then there is an issue if they don't have desk and chair and parents can't afford those so money needed to find that.

Some people can't afford to pay for the Internet so that's more money needed.