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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

A’Level disasters 😔😣

999 replies

OverTheRainbow88 · 13/08/2020 11:17

Any other schools been majorly hit?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
lyralalala · 14/08/2020 16:09

Not even the rank order thing explains DD's schools results.

It's utterly bizarre

Coffeeandbeans · 14/08/2020 16:14

Thank you @WombatChocolate you have explained exactly how I as a parent felt. I thought my child would get his UCAS predictions. The school had made such a thing about how respected they are with the universities in getting the UCAS spot on and that parents were not to challenge the UCAS predictions blah blah. So I believed that. I just assumed his CAG would be the same as UCAS.

lyralalala · 14/08/2020 16:21

@Coffeeandbeans

Thank you *@WombatChocolate* you have explained exactly how I as a parent felt. I thought my child would get his UCAS predictions. The school had made such a thing about how respected they are with the universities in getting the UCAS spot on and that parents were not to challenge the UCAS predictions blah blah. So I believed that. I just assumed his CAG would be the same as UCAS.
Were they very different? That must make it so much harder for the kids as well.

The whole situation is a shit show.

DeRigueurMortis · 14/08/2020 16:23

@WombatChocolate

In the end the CAG didn’t make any difference. The key think was rank order and the proportions of students who had got each grade over the previous 3 year average in the school.

So if historically a class of 20 averaged 2 *s, 2As, 4Bs, 3Cs, 9 Es then if you were this year ranked at no 12, no matter if your CAG was A, B, C, D or E you would get an E. it was about using the tank order to maintain the historic ratios - where it was fully applied. It can explain why some students might be downgraded by 1 grade and others by several.

Students mostly don’t know the rank order they were put in, plus they often don’t realise how many students historically get low grades in their school. This explains it on a macro level.

The more the CAGs didn’t fit with the a schools historic averages, the more likely significant downgrading was.

It felt even worse for many students too, because their point of reference and expectation wasn’t the CAG which they didn’t know until yesterday, even if then, but their ucas grade which wasn’t involved in the process. Many CAGs will have been lower than ucas predictions because schools know only 16% achieve those grades - they are wildly optimistic - partly to help students get offers and partly because although schools often know roughly x% will get certain grades they don’t know exactly who, so need to be generous. So the CAGs from most schools were too generous (and it seems even more generous in relation to historic averages) in non selective schools, so downgrading happened and needed to happen even more strongly than in schools which had only been slightly generous in relation to historic averages.

But for the students, the heart of the disappointment lies in the gap that they think about being the one between ucas and what the boards awarded ——even bigger a gap than the CAG and awarded grade.

Students often don’t realise how few students achieve their ucas prediction. Taking exMs and realising they didn’t go brilliantly helps calibrate expectations down a bit, but there was none of that this year. Gov kept saying students would get what they deserved and in student minds this was the ucas prediction. No wonder there was disappointment.

And clearly errors have been made on an individual school basis with historic averages not being delivered this year.

But even if historic averages had been delivered to each school, or slightly better (and overall grades are up this year and the disadvantaged into uni in higher numbers more than ever) there was always going to be huge disappointment because students had in mind their inflated ucas grades and the system could never deliver those without grade inflation of probably over 25%. Even if the CAGs had been used the inflation would have been over 10%.

Government knows we can’t have inflation of 10% and schools know too, but parents and students don’t see the bigger picture or even have enough info to understand that the A grade predicted to ucas was extremely optimistic, the child was ranked 10/30 and given a CAG of B, but that in that school students below the top 25% haven’t got above a C for the last 3 years, so the system will deliver a C. If they had taken the exam, actually a C is what they probably would have got....but we don’t know for sure. But the key is that in their mind, they thought the government were saying they would get the grade they deserved and it was an A. A massive gap in understanding and expectation.

And the Press are disingenuous. They know how the system worked and that more have got higher grades than ever, that schools in disadvantaged areas were more likely to inflate their CAGs even more, so that’s why they were downgraded and they know that ucas grades are achieved by less than 20% of students....but they are feeding the rage and that students have been cheated.
Most people when they think about it realise this year group weren’t 10% cleverer than previous years. But it’s hard to think about the bigger picture when students have had 6 months to feel they will get their ucas grades, plus vitally have lost all control over the final grade. Even though most in an exam would have got their CAG or below, if taking an e am there was still the POSSIBILITY of better, and that loss of possibility however remote, is hard to come to terms with, because for many it didn’t feel remote but a massive improvement they were going to make.

To be fair I think a lot of people do understand this.

However, it's also true that independent schools with smaller classes and higher historical grades have not just been less impacted but overall benefited.

It's also the case that some children who are outliers in terms of academic ability have suffered and these students come disproportionately from average or low achieving state schools.

Looking at the macro level doesn't help these students - for many of whom their grades were the route to increase their future social mobility and life experiences.

I appreciate this was always going to be tough to manage but it's clear the algorithm used is a very blunt instrument that might have achieved its goal in "levelling" the grades but it's absolutely at the expense of arguably the children who least deserved it in terms of the disadvantages they'd already faced and their ability to recover from it.

Coffeeandbeans · 14/08/2020 16:24

@lyralalala

UCAS -ACD
CAG- CDD
Outturn - CDE

mrpumblechook · 14/08/2020 16:30

My child didn't do A levels this year and so I am not influenced by UCAS predictions or personal disappointment etc. DD's school (grammar) just did not get the results that they usually get and I can see that some nearby "comprehensives" (although some would call them secondary moderns) have much much higher results than usual. Something is wrong with the algorithm.

BeyondMyWits · 14/08/2020 16:33

UCAS - AAB
CAG - AAB
Mocks - AAB
Result - ABC - "unsuccessful" UCAS for uni of choice.

High performer, crappy school.

when they all tell you on here "don't worry, cream rises to the top, clever kids will do well at any school" - this is the resultant. Send your kids to the best school they can get into!

merrymouse · 14/08/2020 16:34

that schools in disadvantaged areas were more likely to inflate their CAGs even more

I don't think that is fair.

The rank order system helps any cohort who are being compared to a group with a small range of grades, e.g. because they go to a selective school.

There are schools where few students will get lower than a B at A-level. This means both that the school is more likely to predict the correct grade because students have already been selected for ability at 11 and little added value is expected, and also that there is less room for variation from year to year.

Also there will always be unpredictable events that depress performance (illness, trauma), but there aren't really any unpredictable events that improve performance. The more disadvantaged a school, the more likely that pupils will experience such an event.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 14/08/2020 16:37

when they all tell you on here "don't worry, cream rises to the top, clever kids will do well at any school" - this is the resultant. Send your kids to the best school they can get into

Absolutely

I used to think that...i dont fucking think that now

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 14/08/2020 16:38

‘Work hard and you’ll be rewarded‘

Not saying that one either

Baaaahhhhh · 14/08/2020 16:41

There are schools where few students will get lower than a B at A-level. This means both that the school is more likely to predict the correct grade because students have already been selected for ability at 11 and little added value is expected, and also that there is less room for variation from year to year

Yes, and plenty of those schools are appealing C&D's awarded with no possible, feasible explanation. Even if you accept the ranking argument, if your school has never got below a B, how can they give someone a D just because they are 30/30.

Marlboroughdreams · 14/08/2020 16:43

@WombatChocolate

In the end the CAG didn’t make any difference. The key think was rank order and the proportions of students who had got each grade over the previous 3 year average in the school.

So if historically a class of 20 averaged 2 *s, 2As, 4Bs, 3Cs, 9 Es then if you were this year ranked at no 12, no matter if your CAG was A, B, C, D or E you would get an E. it was about using the tank order to maintain the historic ratios - where it was fully applied. It can explain why some students might be downgraded by 1 grade and others by several.

Students mostly don’t know the rank order they were put in, plus they often don’t realise how many students historically get low grades in their school. This explains it on a macro level.

The more the CAGs didn’t fit with the a schools historic averages, the more likely significant downgrading was.

It felt even worse for many students too, because their point of reference and expectation wasn’t the CAG which they didn’t know until yesterday, even if then, but their ucas grade which wasn’t involved in the process. Many CAGs will have been lower than ucas predictions because schools know only 16% achieve those grades - they are wildly optimistic - partly to help students get offers and partly because although schools often know roughly x% will get certain grades they don’t know exactly who, so need to be generous. So the CAGs from most schools were too generous (and it seems even more generous in relation to historic averages) in non selective schools, so downgrading happened and needed to happen even more strongly than in schools which had only been slightly generous in relation to historic averages.

But for the students, the heart of the disappointment lies in the gap that they think about being the one between ucas and what the boards awarded ——even bigger a gap than the CAG and awarded grade.

Students often don’t realise how few students achieve their ucas prediction. Taking exMs and realising they didn’t go brilliantly helps calibrate expectations down a bit, but there was none of that this year. Gov kept saying students would get what they deserved and in student minds this was the ucas prediction. No wonder there was disappointment.

And clearly errors have been made on an individual school basis with historic averages not being delivered this year.

But even if historic averages had been delivered to each school, or slightly better (and overall grades are up this year and the disadvantaged into uni in higher numbers more than ever) there was always going to be huge disappointment because students had in mind their inflated ucas grades and the system could never deliver those without grade inflation of probably over 25%. Even if the CAGs had been used the inflation would have been over 10%.

Government knows we can’t have inflation of 10% and schools know too, but parents and students don’t see the bigger picture or even have enough info to understand that the A grade predicted to ucas was extremely optimistic, the child was ranked 10/30 and given a CAG of B, but that in that school students below the top 25% haven’t got above a C for the last 3 years, so the system will deliver a C. If they had taken the exam, actually a C is what they probably would have got....but we don’t know for sure. But the key is that in their mind, they thought the government were saying they would get the grade they deserved and it was an A. A massive gap in understanding and expectation.

And the Press are disingenuous. They know how the system worked and that more have got higher grades than ever, that schools in disadvantaged areas were more likely to inflate their CAGs even more, so that’s why they were downgraded and they know that ucas grades are achieved by less than 20% of students....but they are feeding the rage and that students have been cheated.
Most people when they think about it realise this year group weren’t 10% cleverer than previous years. But it’s hard to think about the bigger picture when students have had 6 months to feel they will get their ucas grades, plus vitally have lost all control over the final grade. Even though most in an exam would have got their CAG or below, if taking an e am there was still the POSSIBILITY of better, and that loss of possibility however remote, is hard to come to terms with, because for many it didn’t feel remote but a massive improvement they were going to make.

Doesn't explain my school, which with a stronger cohort than previous years has managed to not get anything above a C, when each of the last three years there have been a couple of Bs.

Doesn't explain my friend's school, where over the last three years they have had almost 300 do her subject with only one U in all that time, and 27% A star and 60% A star/A. This year they had three Us (so ten times as many

Marlboroughdreams · 14/08/2020 16:44

Posted too soon!

Ten times as many Us, in effect, as the cohort was about 80, and only (for them!) 16% A stars.

itsgettingweird · 14/08/2020 16:45

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

when they all tell you on here "don't worry, cream rises to the top, clever kids will do well at any school" - this is the resultant. Send your kids to the best school they can get into

Absolutely

I used to think that...i dont fucking think that now

Also use to think this.

I'm also now worried more and more about ds results last year.

I believe the teacher predictions from the mocks added to what they showed me with recent module asses,ents in January were very reactive of ds ability - he's got a MASSIVE spike profile. (Mocks were 2-9!)

Yet as much as I know where ds was and as much as I believe school would be overtly spot on I'm terrified that's all irrelevant.

Not a great message to students either is it.

Work really really hard for the best you can.
But if you do better than Sally and John last year we still won't reward For that because we think what sally and John did last year is a better indication of how you did this year - than how you actually did Angry

itsgettingweird · 14/08/2020 16:46

This year not last year Blush

SmileEachDay · 14/08/2020 16:48

RufustheSniggeringReindeer and BeyondMyWits

I could cry because of the effect this has had on you and your children. I’m a teacher - I feel as though I’m part of a system that has betrayed the kids I teach.

merrymouse · 14/08/2020 16:49

Most people when they think about it realise this year group weren’t 10% cleverer than previous years.

Take out all the variables that reduce performance in exams - not studying for a particular question, not panicking, not breaking up with your boyfriend the week before - and I would expect overall performance to be at least 10% better.

Of course teacher assessments and exams produce different results.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 14/08/2020 16:53

smile

Oh dont do that love!

The teachers haven’t betrayed the children in the slightest!

Some of the horror stories are just awful...dd is lucky in comparison

But no...I’m not telling my children they can succeed no matter what, as even they can tell now that I’m lying

Especially as academic 6th form that ds2 goes to is being reported as doing well...compared to city college that dd attends

lyralalala · 14/08/2020 16:57

[quote Coffeeandbeans]@lyralalala

UCAS -ACD
CAG- CDD
Outturn - CDE[/quote]
There's quite a difference between A and C. That's quite a disappointment for a kid expecting an A to get a C.

My 2 had less difference between their UCAS preductions and CAG. DD1 was UCAS AAA and her CAG was AAA as well. Her result was BBC.
DD2 was UCAS BBB. Her CAG was BBC and her result CCE

One of their friends was given CCC for both UCAS and CAG, but got awarded EEU.

DeRigueurMortis · 14/08/2020 16:58

One other thing to add is what would the damage have been if this years results were over inflated?

Everyone knows it was an exceptional year.

Statistically they could have been wiped as an anomaly re: school performance.

On the other hand the damage done by the ranking system will have a profound impact on some children for the rest of their lives.

Which really was the worse outcome here?

Any schools found to have massively inflated marks should have been dealt with on an individual basis rather than the application of a blunt ranking system.

GrammarTeacher · 14/08/2020 16:59

Can people please stop believing the 3 year average thing. It just is not true. Our results were hugely out from the 3 year average which itself would have been a disappointment for this year group.

SmileEachDay · 14/08/2020 17:19

The teachers haven’t betrayed the children in the slightest!

Thanks Rufus I appreciate you saying that.

I feel a little as though this is an unintended consequence of the way education has been going for years - the increasing weight on linear exams, the removal of coursework, the massive increase in content...all those things make achieving more difficult for disadvantaged students and massively favour academic students, particularly those with parents who are able to support them. The removal of vocational courses because schools can’t count them in results in the same way. The removal of early college placements because schools can’t afford them.

That was a deliberate strategy from the government. Make school harder.

So now here we are, in a situation no one could have predicted. And the way the government chooses to fix it is by, once again, not giving a shiny shit about children.

RedStreetMonument · 14/08/2020 17:24

The teachers haven’t betrayed the children in the slightest!

I second this.

The government have shafted the students and the teachers.

mrpumblechook · 14/08/2020 17:29

One other thing to add is what would the damage have been if this years results were over inflated?

It might have caused a problem for a few universities although probably not too bad considering it is a low birth rate year and fewer international students.

FelicisNox · 14/08/2020 17:39

My DD isn't home yet (at work) and I'm genuinely scared as to what the results will be.

She was originally predicted a distinction.

The horror stories on Twitter suggest as usual private schools got unusually high results where as comps have got unusually low.

Make of that what you will.

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