To ask you to help me word my argument properly against my employers

[Hmmmmminteresting]

im rubbish at wording things well and I need help, that is if you think I'm not being unreasonable in my argument.
I work for a large company, office based key worker. During lockdown we WFH every day. We are now back in a few days a week. My DC nursery has been operating reduced hours since June so I've been making up my extra hours during 1 evening, something that quite a lot of us have done rather than take a pay cut and this has worked well. The company can see how much im doing of an evening so no queries there. I've actually churned out more work than ever with no distractions.
On Friday I was advised that as of September this arrangement will come to an end, although we will still be WFH half of the week.
My nursery have said that they are continuing to review their reduced hours and it will change at some point between September and xmas but they won't give a firm date yet.
My 2x dc are very settled there and after an odd few months I dont want to move them when potentially a week or 2 later they could go back to fully operational.
My company have said that I now need to decide to change childcare provider or drop my hours and pay.
I feel like this is an unreasonable request. We are still in the middle of a pandemic and just because my company are trying to return to normal ASAP, the rest of the UK is not necessarily doing the same. I can't afford to take a paycut and there is absolutely no reason why I can't continue to top up my missing 2.5 hrs a week during 1 evening, other than they don't want me to.
AIBU? I want to write to HR manager but no idea what to say without sounding like im being an idiot

You're employer has been more than reasonable and yojre still working partly from home, thinks are beginning to kick start back into normality, either apply for flexible working or seek alternative childcare if they cant specfiy a date.

I think given that the Prime
minister has said repeatedly that they expect employers to be reasonable when asked questions like this, that you should explain your reasons for wanting to maintain your flexible working arrangements for slightly longer. Given its having no impact on your work I can't see why they would refuse tbh.

You still have time and will be cheaper in the long run than a pay drop. you and partner if you have one can split between you. Tell all your co-workers who will also be affected and your employer might decide to be more reasonable when faced with many staff off, as they cannot refuse and best thing is if they try to discipline you the Equality Act is your friend.

Your welcome.'

Lol forgot link www.gov.uk/parental-leave

@Pumpkintopf is also correct but like a lot of the PMs crap handling of this, there are no teeth and pretty useless. Bozo is a expert and passing the buck but not actually doing anything concrete.

I would make the argument based on:

1. productivity - you are actually getting more done WFH and they can see that in what you are getting done
2. national data shows that generally people who WFH are more productive than those in the office
3. your employer could be taking the opportunity to bank the advantages of a work flexible and agile workforce and cutting head office costs
4. it is by no means certain that there won't be a second wave or further lockdowns so changing your childcare requirements could be counter productive in the months to come reducing your ability to adapt to further WFH requirements
5. that you want them to consider your flexible working opportunities as based on the govt guidance posted above
6. that if they press ahead you'd like them to carry out an Equalities Act assessement as to whether you are being treated fairly compared with male colleagues

Make a formal request for flexible working. Your employer may have a form but if not use one of these - www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-right-to-request-flexible-working-form
The key is to think about it from your employers perspective and to state how your work can be done using your proposed working pattern. Given that you have worked this pattern for several months your employer will find it difficult to say it won't work.

Is this only about 2.5 hours a week? Surely you could get the kids's dad to cover that or a friend/family? The arrangement worked for you but flexible working/people making up time in the evenings can actually be a pain for employers even if you don't necessarily see it. Ask for it but be prepared to get a no. Alternatively they could also be purposely using this to get people to accept lower salaries.

A flexible working request is definitely worth a try. Unless they can point to sound business reasons why this tried-and-tested arrangement harms the business, they'll have difficulty refusing.

Would they let you use holiday to cover the reduced hours, since it would only be temporary?

It might be worth mentioning the situation to the nursery - if they know they could potentially lose customers it might get them to set a date, and your company might be rather more receptive to "until October" than "until some as-yet-to-be-decided date".

Not all offices are purpose built. Some are too small / narrow / awkward to maintain social distancing.

Can people please remember this when bashing people who continue to WFH part or full time?

I know Boris wants everyone back in. But it isn’t always feasible to do safely.

We’re on a rota for this very reason.

Too many Mumsnetters think that WFH is a choice and it isn’t always this simple

@Hmmmmminteresting I think you should find a new childcare provider. Sorry you should do what it takes to keep your job safe in this current climate x

Sorry, I know nobody was WFH bashing (yet)

Just really wanted to say what I had to say before anyone started x

Do I understand this correctly? You are back in the office a few days per week but are doing 2.5 hours less over those few days (due to dropping off or picking up DC from nursery) and are making that time up at home one evening? Your employer wants you to start working your proper hours at the office on those days but the other days lets you wfh still?

I think your employer is being reasonable and has given you plenty of notice to sort this out. They cannot just wait around until your nursery operates longer hours. You cannot just dictate to them when and where you are prepared to work. For the sake of a cut in hours and pay of 2.5 hours per week, I think you should just accept the drop. Hopefully it won't be too long before the nursery operates longer hours - it could even be during September.

It is worth writing and asking but I don't think some of the points in @Bouledeneige's post are relevant. The points I think are relevant are points 1 and 6, the others not so.

2) national data shows that generally people who WFH are more productive than those in the office
An employer is interested in the productivity of their employee. It doesn't matter about employees in the general population. This is irrelevant as you will have referred to your productivity in point 1.

3) your employer could be taking the opportunity to bank the advantages of a work flexible and agile workforce and cutting head office costs
Most Head Office costs are fixed costs such as rent and insurance. Even lighting and heating are semi fixed. Unless they can move to smaller premises quickly (highly unlikely for a large organisation) then the employer doesn't benefit quickly from this.

4) it is by no means certain that there won't be a second wave or further lockdowns so changing your childcare requirements could be counter productive in the months to come reducing your ability to adapt to further WFH requirements
This is a totally unreasonable argument. We can't base arguments on potential events in the future. The only argument this supports is keeping her current childcare (and cutting her working hours).

5) that you want them to consider your flexible working opportunities as based on the govt guidance posted above
The employer is being flexible in allowing the OP to continue to work for 2.5 days per week from home. I think they would argue they are being flexible enough.

I'd look into making a flexible working request.
If it is just for the 2.5 hours a week is there no chance you could take your break for collection/drop off and work while kids are around? I know it's far from ideal, I've had to work all through lockdown with 3 kids at home but I managed to make it work.
Otherwise I'd ask to take annual leave to cover the time. Problem with parental leave is it needs to be taken in weekly chunks, unpaid which won't really help.
Hope you work it out.

I’d put in a formal flexible working request to move those 2.5hrs from the “office” days to wfh days. You might need to do slightly longer wfh days at both ends rather than work one evening. You could also time limit it to 3 months max.

I honestly dont think I'd be making a fuss over 2.5 hours. Do you really not have any other way to.make these hours work ?

I wouldnt want to highlight myself to.my employers as inflexible in this current climate.

Is the cut in pay from 2.5 hours absolutely material for you?

Is your partner able to step up?

First of all, contact your HR department and ask for a copy of their policy documents on the subject. Ask about the process for applying for flexible working.

If you have a union rep, contact them too. If you are not in a union, find out if there is one you can join ASAP.

From there, its a case of filling out either the government standard form as posted by a PP, or using your organisations own template. Write out the reasons you have given us in terms of benefit to the business, using facts and figures to support each point and removing all trace of emotion or even the merest hint of emotional blackmail.

Flexible working requests often need to be time limited, again your employer's HR department should be able to advise you on policy (in our company it is 1 year, with no opportunity to reapply for another year after the fixed term has ended).

2.5 hours a week - so 10 hours a month - would that really make such a huge difference in terms of your finances?

Personally I would temporarily take the pay cut and then go back to normal once nursery as back to their normal hours. I don't think it's worth such a big row over such a small amount of time each week.

Although you are being productive and making up the 2.5hours, it may be that others are not.

Rather than allow some employees to do it, and not others, they have made a decision for everyone.

I can understand why you don't want to change childcare providers but I would be taking the pay cut in return for reduced hours, with a view to increasing them again once nursery begins operating usual hours.

Could you put in a formal flexible working request. They need to show how it won't work if they decline which they can't because it has been.

You've been picking up the work during the evening for 2 months now. If they are looking at reverting to normal hours, it can only mean that it hadn't working for them.

Maybe it is that it is ok for the work you do, but not for the chain down or up or customers. You might not be aware of the full impact of you leaving early on days and making the time up at other times.

Their request is reasonable if indeed, there are business implications with the current flexibility. The fact that you don't want to change kids of establishment or want to take away cut is not their problem.

I would make an official flexible working request (unless you expect to need to change your hours in the next year)
Bear in mind that normally it is relatively easy for employers to refuse these
We have been letting employees do all sorts of odd hours,wfh with children etc but that was only due to the unprecedented circumstances and are expecting normal hours etc from the start of September

Thank you everyone for the advice, it's much appreciated.
Asking DH to help is out of the question, he requested to be furloughed during lock down as nursery shut and i was wfh full time which was impossible with 2 toddlers. Nobody covered his work for 3 months, he is now working 11 -13 hour days to catch up. Usually he dropped off and I would pick up but that's just not possible at the moment.
With regards to dropping my hours, it's a well paid job and dropping 10 hours a month does add up to quite a lot, especually when at the moment we are paying over £1400 a month in nursery fees and thats on their reduced hour's fees. FYI, reduced hours means 8.30 - 4pm.
I guess I'm back to the drawing board :-(
Thanks again

Isn't your DH being paid for the extra hours then? Wouldn't that fill in the shortfall?