My friend said something really stupid and I didn't challenger her

[cyrilavery]

She is a bit of a natural birth evangelist because she had a quick easy Labour with her first baby.

She said she'd read that there has been a dramatic decrease in premature babies during covid, and this was because women know there is danger in the outside
World so they are holding onto their babies for as long as possible

I hadn't actually read that stat so I looked it up later and it's true but the possible explanations seem to be to do with women getting more rest and/or fewer infections during lockdowns.

I feel like an idiot that I didn't challenge her at the time. I just hope she doesn't repeat it to women who have had Prem babies.

@BlingLoving

People are such idiots. A friend who had been trying for a baby and going through infertility treatment, albeit secretly, was devastated when at a dinner party with other friends and the man said, "I feel sorry for people who can't have children, but really, I think it's nature's way of just keeping the population down."

A man I worked with commented once that even though he was a 6ft tall white man and his wife was a tiny Asian woman, he was sure birth would be fine because, " women have been giving birth successfully for 1000s of years." I was completely gobsmacked. Particularly considering this came up in the context of him telling me she was at a special appointment that day as the baby was measuring quite large and the doctors were concerned!?

People are dicks. And they think their own experiences are the same for everyone. Overall, I'm not the type who thinks people need to completely censure everything they say in case it triggers someone, but I have zero time for people who are so completely in their bubble that they have no idea how things are for others.

Yes, that was a completely stupid comment in the circumstances but paternal height isn't necessarily an indication of birth size. I'm a very petite 5'2". Dh is a big build 6'3". My biggest baby was 8lb. Other 2 were 6lb 10oz and 6lb 14oz. The 8lb one is now 6'5" and the 6lb 14oz one is 6".

I have 3 sets of friends with similar size differences and an aunt. None had issues with large babies.

I really wanted my DS to be born at 30 weeks, born blue floppy, and taken 5 mins to get going. If she was my friend I’d have slapped her

There are several studies that have been discussed in the medical press (I am not sure if these are published as yet) 1 from Denmark which reports a 90% decrease in very premature birth (before 28 weeks) but no significant change in infants born between 28-37 weeks and one from Ireland that has seen a 73% decrease in very low birth weight babies (birthweight being a surrogate for prematurity). These are supported by stats emerging from Australia and the US. They have postulated various reasons as to why they are observing this trend.
A paper from a london tertiary obstetric hospital published in JAMA has reported a rise in stillbirths in these cases the stillbirths were not directly related to Covid infection. This group has also given credible possible reasons.
Not one of these researchers suggested that the mother or nature or whatever knew to hang on to their babies as the world was dangerous.

Yes, that was a completely stupid comment in the circumstances but paternal height isn't necessarily an indication of birth size. I'm a very petite 5'2". Dh is a big build 6'3". My biggest baby was 8lb. Other 2 were 6lb 10oz and 6lb 14oz. The 8lb one is now 6'5" and the 6lb 14oz one is 6".

This. The only women I know who had babies over 9 ibs were obese / unwell or were tall themselves (ie over 5 ft 8). Those who were obese / unwell produced children who were 5 ft 6-5ft11 adult height.

All the healthy women I know who had properly tall kids (but who weren’t tall themselves) had kids between 3-8 pounds. The one thing they all had in common though was length. Longer babies = taller adult height. Nothing else really matters.

I'm pretty sure this is seen in other animals too. I think kangaroos is one that can delay the start of development until a more suitable time. It's not a conscious decision, it's a physiological response to stress. Like ovulation is delayed when you're stressed.
But I do also think that hospitals have been less willing to see people. People have been less willing to go to hospital. So some of those that would have been delivered early either were stillborn or turned out ok and were delivered later.

I've seen the statistic about fewer preterm births. I automatically thought it's probably down to furlough/early maternity leave. It used to be normal to finish work circa 34 weeks, now it's common to go to 38/40 weeks - it's possible the enforced rest helped, lower stress but also drs intervened at a higher threshold because the pandemic risk outweighed the continuing pregnancy etc

There have been 2 interesting studies pointing towards a reduction in premature births.

www.rcm.org.uk/news-views/rcm-opinion/2020/a-reduction-in-premature-births-during-covid-19/

I can't find it now but I saw a decent write-up that said it will be interesting if any underlying factors can be confirmed. Eg:

• greater amount of presence by a supportive partner during lockdown;
• reduced exposure to community infections;
• less stress during lockdown in the final term for women who have a stressful commute/occupation leading to some women (not all) having a slower pace of life with less stress on the baby.

There was an outstanding presentation last year by Dr. Shawnita Sealy-Jefferson about why there are some different prematurity rates among Caucasian and non-Caucasian groups. She identified the role of housing insecurity as a substantial contribution - and it will be fascinating to see if that had any influence on this in the countries where evictions weren't allowed during lockdown or as a Public Health measure.

well I hope someone would be looking at

possible decline in smoking, well known to cause low birthweight

fewer young mothers, again often low birthweght babies

women putting on weight

I have a friend who comes out with all sorts of things that make me wonder about her but, I don’t question her, I just think we’re all a bit bonkers in our way-although some more so than others!

It's amazing what people will say with so little thought.

I had a colleague tell me that children conceived with IVF (as mine was and this is something I'm very open about so she knew) shouldn't be here. After all unless it was natural conception there was likely to be something wrong with them later in life. I was at the time pregnant with my second child (an enormous natural surprise). I rolled my eyes and told her that this seemed to be an enormous leap of logic based on very little evidence.

I had all of my children premature. No amount of rest would of stopped it happening. Though these people’s view don’t bother me. I don’t give a shit about people’s opinions

It makes me laugh these women though. Because they don’t have a clue!

Just keeping an open mind - the body can do amazing things, would it really be so unimaginable that when the mum's mind is full of thoughts about a global pandemic it could sometimes have an impact on the birth?

This doesn't mean mums of prem babies did anything wrong or could have influenced the birth, that would be stupid.

PS: I am not an anti-vaxxer, flat-earth-believer or even fan of natural birth. And my twins were born at 37w so even though not prem, just at the limit.

Has there been an increase in stillbirths?

@StealthPolarBear

Has there been an increase in stillbirths?

The numbers are too small to confirm or deny the observational reports in this clinical research letter:

High rates of preterm birth and cesarean delivery have been reported in women with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) infection.1 However, studies have inadequate power to assess uncommon outcomes like stillbirth (fetal death ≥24 weeks’ gestation). The UK Obstetric Surveillance System reported 3 stillbirths among 247 completed pregnancies in women with confirmed coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) vs the national rate (12.1 per 1000 births vs 4-5 per 1000 births).

jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2768389

Far far too small and their "before" figures look low