Which ethnic box do we tick on this form?

[SkatingWithBears]

Just a play scheme form we’re filling in, but friend and I often get this. Nationality is easy, we have British PassportS and are white. But ethnicity? ‘White British‘ Or tick ‘White Other‘ for these:

Family one kids: white, both parents born abroad and dual language. Do kids tick white British or White Other on forms for ethnicity?

Family two: kids also born here and White (except eldest born abroad). One parent born abroad, one born here to parents from country of origin. Tend to speak English together, only parents are bilingual.

Names and looks are not typical British, but they look white.

At what point do you stop ticking ‘white other’ and tick ‘white British’ on forms?

I’ve had it queried before years ago, I have an English accent, British passport and feel more British now than anything else culturally- but I speak another language and have a name that in it’s full form isn’t British sounding. Forms can vary between ‘nationality’ and ‘ethnicity‘ too in their wording. Primary school wanted me to tick ‘other’/ EAL as apparently it helped finding formulas. The country we all have heritage in doesn’t allow dual nationality.

Didn’t mean to allow voting

It doesn't matter. Tick whatever you want..

If you've got British nationality, out White British. If you haven't, white Other.
It's only for monitoring purposes usually, making sure things like there's no racial discrimination etc.

I think the reason it matters I guess is knowing the perception of the majority, at what stage you are accepted in the minds of those who produce the forms and the majority of people. It’s hard to explain, but you are more sensitive to these things when you’ve been an outsider or on the end of many negative interactions over the years.

Pick whichever you like. Those who produce the forms don't care what you tick. It's seen as a positive if there's more diversity (even if that diversity is different kinds of "white" ). It's statistical analysis and not linked to anyone personally or anything to do with acceptance.

I’m of the opinion that if your born in Britain, your British. I tend to tick Black British African, as I’m Black, was born in Britain and my ethnicity is African.

Or I just don’t tick any of the bloody boxes....

In my nonexoert opinion I'd say you are white British if you are born here. My grandparents were Irish and moved to the UK in the 50s my dad and I were both born in the UK so we are British.
I'd say that would apply whether the mother country was France, Germany, Latvia or anywhere else.

Essentially it doesn't matter and tick whatever box you want.

My heritage is European on one side and Irish on the other, I was born in Britain. I tend to tick "white other" but sometimes I have to pick between "white European" and "white Irish" and it depends on my mood on the day! I feel very british, i am british but I dont usually go for "white British" on those forms because my ethnicity is not that simple and I reckon that's what they're monitoring.

If you feel British then tick that. Schools and the like want you to tick the other box as then that makes them look more 'diverse'.

Thanks Hadjab for not dismissing the question entirely.

For those dismissing the question, it isn’t something that doesn’t matter. It has been quite a factor in my life moving here and raising children here. I’ve had a few forms handed back for correction over the years (funding for school or just an application query) and funny attitudes. It’s improved massively now but it’s not just a case of picking anything and being included in everything. We’re often presumed to be Polish (not been there personally, don’t speak a similar language etc). I’ve had jobs were I’ve been told they need ‘good English’ (I don’t think I even have a strong accent) when I asked about getting interviews. I’ve had my first language English child put in a ‘EAL’ group outside some lessons who then missed loads of learning, just on a presumption. Told they’ll ‘probably be builders’ as an attempt at joking through it when I’ve tried to constructively address it (he got As in English lit and language later on, really no issue). Two years running the primary school made up our ethnicity for another child on the census data, that I’m sure will sound unbelievable- but it happened even after I asked for correction the first year. I’ve been spoken about openly in shops and on buses countless times if I speak another language with a friend, about ‘them’, ‘loads of them now’, ‘doing all the work cheap‘ (we aren’t builders) and ‘no one can get work’.
I sometimes anglaise our name for certain interactions as I’ve discovered it can be easier, like booking the car in the garage. Holiday parks in particular, we had an earful of abuse one year at Butlins by the pool after and I won’t return there (this is an English country, speak English etc). I don’t book some places. Even silly things like being approached at playgroup and asked if you want to join the Eastern European mums group can make you paranoid, it adds up a bit. Or just accent imitation at work, or people making up ways to say your name and not caring. You have to smile at people counting ‘Von, two, tree...!’ to not be moody, it’s a grind.

This isn’t a sob story, I’m just trying to explain that whilst it might not matter to you it is something that I’ve wondered about on many occasions. It’s something I haven’t been made to feel I can just pick and chose. Whilst I’m not at the receiving end of racism obviously, it’s not that simple either that you can just be ‘British’ in the eyes of all. So that’s why I interested in the perception of others.

Like I said previously, for me someone is British if they feel that they are. But I've never been to butlins! (check out Nigel Ng's butlins video on YouTube)

Seems like you've just met some awful people, unfortunately they are everywhere!

I usually tick the prefer not to say box for everything on forms. It's just for the company/organisations to prove that they are diverse and stuff. If I'm feeling particularly naughty that day I'll tick all the boxes. 😈
And yes I've been told off for that, but they soon shut up when I say you're racist for judging me on my race.

I tend to think about why they're asking. If it's for health purposes I would tick whatever is closest to where your genes are from in case it matters. Otherwise tick whatever you want.

Unfortunately people can be horrible and pick up on any imagined difference no matter how long you have been here, even if born here.

I tick mixed white and Asian/Indian for my children although they look white. I sometimes get treated differently when people find out DH is Indian. White parents at school sometimes assume I have insight into the local Pakistani Muslim community despite DH being lapsed Catholic Anglo Indian.

On the other hand a group of mixed Asian women at work suddenly liked me more when they found out which was brilliant.

Always a hard choice for us with mixed origins, if you know its only for monitoring then make a choice or leave it blank. If you feel white British then that's what you are. I usually tick white other as I'm not 100% British from birth

Why bother at all ? I never have. 36 years and counting since I had an argument/discussion at Uni.

(Unless there's space for "Mind Your Own Business". I'd tick that. )

I tick whichever box I'm in the mood to tick that day- who gives a shit what the majority think?! It's all socially constructed bullshit anyway.

I have an Asian friend whose parents were born here as was she. She's received a lot of abuse recently from bigots telling her to go back where's she's from- erm, Portsmouth. She also feels conflicted about the whole British vs English thing. According to her colleagues, her and her parents are British but not English DESPITE BEING BORN IN ENGLAND all because their skin colour isn't white. It's shit.

I can only imagine negotiating it all as a non-white person. My friend has children that on appearance look to be of different heritage, same parents. It’s far from simple.

It’s interesting as well about ‘feeling British’.
To be honest I feel in limbo, not quite either but somewhere in between with cultural differences in either country. I don’t feel British as there’s a huge shared experience that I don’t have, but then if I visit home I do so on a British passport and it’s all changed too hugely.

Nationality: which country will give you a passport.
Ethnicity: where your genes come from. Irrelevant which country feels like home, or which languages you speak - it's basically a skin colour box.

I feel your pain, I hate those tick boxes too. I can never find one I'm happy with.

I always tick “prefer not to say” for age, sex, sexuality and ethnicity. If asked for gender, I ignore it completely or if it is a mandatory question, I will not complete the form at all.

And for title, that’s whatever I feel like. I have been lady, and rear admiral, and Reverend

@GiddapGreyWaynesKeat

I always tick “prefer not to say” for age, sex, sexuality and ethnicity. If asked for gender, I ignore it completely or if it is a mandatory question, I will not complete the form at all.

They can't make questions about protected characteristics mandatory, no matter how much they design the forms to imply it. (Except the census, of course. Next year will be fun ....)

In the case of ethnicity, only a racist can call you out on whatever you put ...

We are from Germany, now have British nationalties thanks to Brexit and wanting to stay.

DD is born here and has British nationality from birth.

We always tick White others. Mainly as there is no difference between White British and White others, under your skin you are the same. It is purely for statistics.

They can't make questions about protected characteristics mandatory

NHS does. I can not register as a blood donor, or opt out of organ donation, as the very first question asks my gender.

@GiddapGreyWaynesKeat

They can't make questions about protected characteristics mandatory

NHS does. I can not register as a blood donor, or opt out of organ donation, as the very first question asks my gender.

But gender isn't a protected characteristic.

(And I believe there are exceptions for use in a medical setting).

I guess if you can get the school extra funding by putting "white other", then why not do so?
Those boxes are for you to complete on the basis of what YOU think. However, if English is not your first language and you speak with an accent, your children may well benefit from specialist EAL support at school. There are different levels of EAL language attainment, and there are plenty of children ( of 1st generation immigrant parents) who sound native English but whose depth of English language and understanding needs a boost- they don't all necessarily have the richness of language or understand all the nuances. If your child can get extra language support in a small group, extending their vocabulary and comprehension, it's a no-brainer whether to take it. There are very few children who wouldn't benefit from that.

But that's a different issue as to what box you should tick.
I have a pretty mixed English/European heritage, but no-one in my family has spoken any language (at home) other than English for 4 generations. I did once refer to that heritage on a school form and was questioned on it, which I thought cheeky but understandable, given the funding issues. I was in the mood for defending my choice at the time, so was happy to justify it.
Research suggests that certain ethnic groups have stronger feelings about including these details for forms - for obvious reasons, most Jewish people questioned in one survey felt uncomfortable about it, whereas Somalis wanted their own category. Roma people also felt that they didn't want to publicly declare their heritage. People of ethnic backgrounds who have been persecuted historically will be wary of giving away any information about themselves which could subsequently be used against them. I guess this is one of the reasons that in the end it has to be your choice what box you tick..
I would just like to say that I think some of the behaviour you have experienced is discriminatory and racist, and I am really sorry that you have had to deal with that.

Sometimes it's important like people have said for health reasons. I'm other, but I make more a point of it when anyty related to the NHS. That's how I was able to become a bond marrow donor.

I have three passports, one of which is British. I was not born in the UK or even Europe and I grew up in part of the UK which is not mainland Britain (NI)... I do put White British if there is no White Irish. If there is White Irish, I tend to put that, as one of my parents is Irish and I grew up on the island of Ireland, although not Ireland itself. Bit complicated eh?

Thinking about it though, if I was being totally accurate, I would probably be Other wouldn't I? Never really gave it much thought tbh!