Am I unwillingly involved in money laundering?

[mamabird201313]

Ok money laundering might be a bit extreme but I'm wondering if I've been taken for a mug by friend.

So friend and her DH own a shop selling discounted food and during lockdown it's really taken off and they're doing really well (to the point that they're opening another shop next month) Now her DH has always been a bit 'dodgy' and she's briefly told me a bit about tax evasion, selling dodgy goods in the past etc but I've always just decided to mind my own business.

A few weeks ago she transferred me £20 without telling me, and I didn't think anything of it because she owed me money from an event ticket we'd paid for but had been cancelled due to COVID. Then the next day she transferred me about £80. So I messaged her asking what it was and she replied all shocked saying that she thought she'd transferred it to herself so could I send it back to her. (It's worth mentioning here that the reference for the money into my bank said PAYPAL and then her name, and she asked me to send it to her bank account.

Anyway, last week she messaged asking if she could do it again because she didn't have her other bank account set up to do transfers, she only had me set up on there before I could reply she'd sent me £95 so I obviously just had to transfer it back to her.

Now I'm thinking could this be dodgy? Like is she doing this to a few people and is it a way that they're taking money out of the business and sending it to people to try and hide it in some way? Obviously I'm hoping that I'm wrong and I'm just being over dramatic because the thought that she's doing something willingly that could get me in to trouble naturally really upsets me and would ruin our friendship.

So basically I'm asking if this would ring alarm bells to you?

Yes, use the chatline. Spell it out in writing. She s sending you money from her business account, without need or your permission, and asking you to return it ot her personal account. Point out that you are not happy to have been ignored on the phone, brushed off. You want it to stop at no detriment to yourself!

Rather than closing your bank account and opening a new one (big pain for you) could you de-link it from your Paypal?

Omg just talk to your mate you drama llama. This is insane calling up everyone, gossiping with other people. Its not a large amount of money and could just be a mistake. Call her up and tell her to stop?!

Statement I don't think the OP is using Paypal, her friend has her account number/sort code as a payee in the friend's Paypal. There's a Paypal service called Xoom which allows you to pay direct to a bank account.

OP it sounds like the bank don't understand what you're talking about because fraudulent transactions are usually money leaving your account, not arriving in it. I would agree with other posters, use the chat facility to spell out what the problem is, you are the recipient of unsolicited transactions that you believe may be micro money laundering transactions. If they still don't get it, I would close the account and transfer elsewhere.

The problem there is that no matter what happens going forward, OP is possibly in an awkward legal position and her 'friend' has put her there!

It's not actually drama if it is happening and OP feel uncomfortable then she has every right to protect herself. If anyone did this to me I'd be incandescent, I am self employed, it could ruin my business.

Honestly I would be tempted to just close the account and not give her the details of the new account.

I would send your ‘friend’ a message saying that you’ve had a call from your bank regarding these transactions and potential money laundering. Hopefully she will shit herself and leave you alone from now on!

@mamabird201313

UPDATE: so I rang HMRC and asked for their advice and they told me to ring my bank. Rang my bank and I don't think they understood what I was getting at because they said if it was fraudulent then they would have picked up on it by now

I'll keep a record of the times I made the phone calls just in case. I have a friend who works at a bank and her husband is a copper and I'm seeing them tomorrow so I might ask for her advice 'off the record' and see what she says

You have used the wrong terminology - you need to say "I think my bank account is being used for money laundering by my friend whose name is X and I need to report it. Please can you send me a confirmation letter to say I have reported it"....

Its not Fraud.

The key to money laundering is you are complicit if the signs are there and you don't report. You need it in writing that you have reported it.

Sound advice @Bakeachocolatecaketoday - tell them you suspect money laundering.

If it comes from PayPal it shows on her bank statement so she's sent it to u from her PayPal because the government will then ask to see her history from her PayPal and they'll see business transactions
Where if u send her it she can say ur a friend and u loaned her money
She's either avoiding paying tax or she's claiming benefits aswell as the business

HMRC don't deal with money laundering. It's the National Crime Agency who deal with it. HMRC deal with tax evasion and they have a webform where people can report suspected tax evasion. That's why the HMRC officer you spoke to wasn't interested and told you to report to the police instead. What is happening in the OP scenario is probably money laundering AND tax evasion. To get HMRC interested, you have to be talking tax evasion otherwise they just switch off!

This is the link for reporting tax evasion:-

www.gov.uk/report-an-unregistered-trader-or-business

You have used the wrong terminology - you need to say "I think my bank account is being used for money laundering by my friend whose name is X and I need to report it. Please can you send me a confirmation letter to say I have reported it"....

But a bank would absolutely never send such a letter as, unlike anything the OP could do, this would come dangerously close to a tipping-off offence.

To the OP: of course the bank are taking this seriously. The bank can’t acknowledge this, however, for various legal reasons, so it sounds like a brush-off.

^You have used the wrong terminology - you need to say "I think my bank account is being used for money laundering by my friend whose name is X and I need to report it^

This is all you need to say.
It IS a money laundering trick.....i was asked to do the same thing only a few days ago by someone i know.

I stick to direct bank transfers from my own account, and i use the reference "helping out" etc so its clear what its for in case it gets flagged.
By using 'Paypal' as a reference she's being deceptive....these kinds of people will blackmail you later on down the road......these kinds of people are NOT your friends.

@Monkeymoney2020 I don't think it makes any difference to the AML investigator what you call transactions. If it's suspicious looking it's suspicious regardless of whether it's called 'giving Auntie Joan a helping hand with her patio' or 'shifty nefarious dodgy stuff'.

@monkeymonkey2010

^You have used the wrong terminology - you need to say "I think my bank account is being used for money laundering by my friend whose name is X and I need to report it^

This is all you need to say.
It IS a money laundering trick.....i was asked to do the same thing only a few days ago by someone i know.

I stick to direct bank transfers from my own account, and i use the reference "helping out" etc so its clear what its for in case it gets flagged.
By using 'Paypal' as a reference she's being deceptive....these kinds of people will blackmail you later on down the road......these kinds of people are NOT your friends.

How is what you call the transaction protecting you? I don't suppose money launderers helpfully describe their transfers as money laundering.

If you're making a lot of transfers to people I'd suggest a more robust way to keeping records

The key to money laundering is you are complicit if the signs are there and you don't report.

Yes the sentence for the ‘helper’ is just as much as for the criminal, if I remember rightly?

How is what you call the transaction protecting you?
Use your BRAIN CELLS ffs!!!!

The POINT is that you TELL THE TRUTH when using a reference for the transactions!!!!!
So no matter what happens - at least YOU know you were being honest and NOT trying to deceive people.

If she transfers anything again, just say you can't transfer it on as the bank have put a hold on the transaction.... Then ask the bank to return it to the paypal account.

@JuniperFather

Anyway, last week she messaged asking if she could do it again because she didn't have her other bank account set up to do transfers, she only had me set up on there hmm before I could reply she'd sent me £95 so I obviously just had to transfer it back to her.

This is dodgy as hell. She is trying to create a transaction history with you and others to show a paper trail for an account.

Tell her NEVER to transfer to you and contact your bank to put a block on any transactions to and from.

The downright liberty of it is what would annoy me.

Banks cannot put a block on money being transferred into bank accounts. I've checked with every major bank (issues with Narc ex) and it's not a possibility sadly.

This sort of thing is something that dodgy folk try on with small charities that maybe don't have robust anti moneylaunderng policies, dodgy folk will make a donation, say £1000 and then get in touch and say whoops sorry I meant to make a £100 donation., could you send me the £900 back please. Back in the day it was usually by check, and so. Etumes if it wasn't mineylaundsrung but fraud they'd get a cheque back before it was cleared, there are some scum around. So dodgy people targeting people or organisations not really financial savvy and trusting.
This sort of thing has led to the situation where you can't pay into someone's account without either using a paying in book or doing it online, so there is proof where the money came from, I used to sometimes pay in for my daughter and would sometimes just take the number, and sort code if her paying in book had used its last slip

Even on the trusting assumption that she is just a bit slapdash with her financial doings, you need to nip this in the bud, as it could lead to problems down the line with bigger sums.

@monkemonkey2010 I know it's hot but why so aggressive?

'Helping out' isn't exactly a transparent reference and could be used to describe assisting someone in laundering money.

When you call/chat the bank again you want to suggest they refer your query to the MLRO to review as to whether they want to file an SAR (suspicious activity report) which I believe is now known as an UAR (unusual activity report). It is then up to the bank whether to file with the NCA or not.

You don't need to stress about it, it's early days and it's easily remedied.

Don't message her, speak to her directly and tell her she will not be sending anymore money to your account. You're not an idiot, this is a form of money laundering and you are genuinely upset that not only would she abuse your friendship like this but to make you guilty by association is downright outrageous.

Tell her you will not accept any excuses or retractions and on this occasion it will not affect your friendship going forward but if she does this again there will be serious repercussions and it will start with your friendship ending and any money sent to your account will not be sent back. Further to that, one whiff of dodgy behaviour and you will endure her DH partnership with yours will come to an abrupt end.

Then put it all in an email to her so you have an audit trail.

Discuss this with DH immediately so you're both on the same page.

ensure

Either she's trying to make it look like she's paying for a service of some sort or refunding things. Either way it's tax evasion and would be considered very interesting to the FIS team. I would personally contact your bank tell them the situation at the very least they may be able to stop her making any transfers into your account. You do not want to get caught up in this as if the fraud team did get involved they will follow every move the money made.