AIBU to want teachers to stop buying resources out of their own pockets.

[washandrepeat]

For years I've read about teachers having to pay for their own photocopying once the budget has been used up plus other resources. Now I am reading that some teachers are having to purchase their own soap and sanitisers for their classes as the budgets won't stretch.

We seem to be one of the only nations, not funding schools to deal with the pandemic. We also seem to have some of the biggest class sizes in Europe, especially compared to the wealthiest European nations. Since when did we accept this for our children? 21 is the average in OECD countries, 23 in France and 21 in Germany. These are some of the reasons why school there can go back with social distancing. Why do we put up with this as if we can do not better?

Why are property developers allowed to build hundreds of new properties in an area without a whiff of new schools to provide for the growing population in these areas?

This isn't a debate about should schools open or not or a teacher-bashing thread if anything this pandemic has shown how we never stand alongside the teachers. Perhaps if we'd listened in the past we might not be in the current situation.

AIBU to want the teachers to stop spending their own money to pay for the Governments failings and for Head Teachers to support them in doing this.

I've vowed not to spend a penny anymore, and if it impacts my lessons, so be it. I'm so disenchanted with the government, and some of the public now that I'm just stopping. I'm going to cut down my hours too, and spend my time and money on my own family. I've been a mug for so many years, and I've finally properly realised no one cares. I'll still enjoy my classes and teach them as well as I can but within time and money budgets.

What things would parents accept their children going without in school if teachers didn't provide them?

I know teachers who buy white board pens, pencils etc out of their own money because otherwise there would be none in the classroom. When the pencils run out before the new term budget is available who do you think pays for them? What would you be saying to your child's school/your MP if your child went to school and had to write with a 4cm long pencil or no pencil because they had all been used up and the teacher hadn't bought any?

I think parents are big enough to deal with the reality, teachers shouldn't be paying to cover for underfunding.

What I object to is the inequality. The children talk to other classes and find out they have better resources because their teacher can afford to spend more out of their own pocket. It’s not the fault of the teacher, but not fair when one class lacks the resources because their teacher is poorer.

Here in Germany, we get a list of school supplies the children must have at the beginning of the year. It includes glue, scissors, specific sized paintbrushes, crayons, coloured pencils, drawing paper, painting paper, you name it: everything they use in the classroom. If a child loses something, the teacher sends a note home and it has to be provided again. In addition to that, we parents make a contribution to a classroom fund every year (we jointly agree how much) and that’s used for photocopying, outings etc. I was surprised initially- the school provides nothing. But I gotta say, it’s a really good system, and makes children and parents entirely responsible for making sure they’ve got the right kit. No question of teachers providing it under any normal circumstance.

It's terrible but not surprising. Like you said teachers have been supplying students for years.
My daughter's school have said all students must have their own supplies of stationery (so obviously they have a problem with it too) and bring in their own hand sanitiser too.
There have been complaints but why should teachers foot the bill

You’re so right. I used to be a teacher and spent a fortune on stickers, books, glue sticks etc. I’m really cross I had to do that. My sister s a teacher and was telling me what she’d been buying and I said to her if only all teachers stopped and there was a realisation what teachers have to do.

I'm in Ireland where the parents are expected to fork out for supplies!! Colours, books, workbooks, pencils glue sticks, etc etc...that's ALL the parents responsibility! Parents also pay money each year for art costs and photocopying fees. I pay my DC's school €40 per child. As a teacher myself no we don't buy them out of our own pocket. Each teacher in school gets a yearly budget of €120 for other art supplies.

Can I add TAs also?

I buy tissues, googley eyes, bird seed, sunflower seeds, staple guns, PE bags, pencil grips, coloured overlays, bean bag fillers, books, sharpies, ribbon, pegs, compost, large chalks, play dough, spare pants and spare socks, a Twinkle Account. I've only just got started, I could go on.

The one thing I don't have to buy is sanitary products for the older girls. They appear in the "red box" as if by magic. Which is fantastic as the Y6 staff are all male, and the older girls seem to think if I changed their pants when they were in reception, I'm the go to person when they have a period .

@labyrinthloafer

I think parents are big enough to deal with the reality, teachers shouldn't be paying to cover for underfunding.

Yes, they should be. I expect many wouldn't be though.

The difficulty with parents providing is it would penalise those in deprived areas. Many of my pupils' families are struggling to feed and clothe them. Providing all those resources that are expected in Germany, for example, would be completely beyond them.

Class set of textbooks
Scissors
Glue sticks
Green pens
Black pens
Whiteboard markers
Exercise books
A-level and GCSE resources
Plain paper
Lined paper
Display paper
Craft materials
Dettol wipes
Kitchen roll
Food for students
Sanitary towels
Printer ink
Laminator
Laminating pouches
Guillotine
Whiteboard
Mini whiteboards
Storage boxes and units
Display posters
Professional body subscriptions

Not a wish list, just some of the things I have paid for out of my own pocket in the last 3 years. Current total is upwards of £15,000...
After nursery fees and all this, I lose money by working...won't change though as I bloody love it!!
Would far rather have the basics above than another set of useless laptops than are never looked after properly and waste a huge amount of lesson time.

@MinnieMousse

The difficulty with parents providing is it would penalise those in deprived areas. Many of my pupils' families are struggling to feed and clothe them. Providing all those resources that are expected in Germany, for example, would be completely beyond them.

If we had any fucking sense in this country there would be a way of addressing this through school funding or support to families.

I'm so tired of how grindingly depressing it all is.

@balloonsintrees wow that is a lot of money that you should not have had to spend, but maybe if more parents were aware of that amount of spend they would understand more what schools/teachers are facing.

@MinnieMousse in Ireland there's a back to school grant for parents on low incomes. It works here.

Honestly I wish everyone would stop subsidising their employers. Stop working through your lunchbreak. Stop working unpaid overtime. Stop excessively covering other colleagues' work when they are long term sick. Stop buying stuff. NONE of these things are the responsibility of the employee.

This, thank you!

I know of colleagues that have spent an awful lot of their own money on equipment for their job. Know loads that work extra hours for free. Why bother, your company doesn't care. The government doesn't care. They don't thank you for doing it. They see you as a mug.

It's exactly like an abusive relationship. If you're willing to put more into it than the other side, the other side will take you for granted again, and again, and again. And you'll get nothing in return.

Dh and I always joke that half of my school stuff isn't officially sponsored by his firm! We get all our printer stuff and paper via his work, so every time I print school stuff it's his firm paying. They (his work) know I use it at home for school and don't have an issue with this to be fair. And I'm forever buying stuff for my room or for school from our own money - Dh earns way more than me but we have joint finances for everything.
I think every teacher and ta I know at the very least provide their own stationary equipment for school. We all pay out of our own money for the reward box - one or two children per week - things like a pencil, an eraser, stickers, bubbles etc. We usually buy copies of books for our book browsers and such things too. And most I know bring in things of their own children's for their class rooms when they've grown out of them, rather than eBaying then.

Most teaching staff I know have paid out for items for children in their care at some time or other. I've bought packed lunches for children who've 'forgotten' one for school trips before for example.

As I'm clinically vulnerable when I go back in September I want my room to be extra clean - especially as I will have every child in school in my room every week. So I will be making sure I have enough cleaning sprays and clothes for the tech devices we will be using each lesson, anti bac for me and the children, etc plus I already supply my room with tissues and the like.

I really can't see that changing though, as we need many of the things we buy, and can't wait for government funding to catch up if we stopped.

I agree that from what I've heard, teachers in the US do this too.

I'm not in the UK, but where I live, we have to pay and extra around 10-15 pounds a month per child to cover extra resources, like if they are going to make a craft and need special supplies, it is covered by this money. Also thinks like extra workbooks. Families on low income have this money covered by the local government, so don't have to pay. We don't buy gifts for the teacher, it isn't allowed.

I'd rather buy soap and tissues for the classroom than have the children spread their germs around (and I'm a TA, not a teacher). I did stop buying resources for learning though.

@enyemaka that’s the problem though isn’t it? As they’re well off they probably feel that the tax they pay should mean they get the education as part of this including supplying supplies. Not saying I agree with this or its my view, just one ive heard expressed.

I think people buy things for different reasons, some things are necessities, some things are to make life easier, some things are maybe just for fun. I know someone who buys a lot of cute glittery stickers to hand out as rewards. Yes they are fun, but totally unnecessary. I think soap and hand sanitiser are pretty necessary. I do agree that the government should be funding this, but maybe ask parents to donate. A lot would be ok with sending in a box of tissues or bottle or bar of soap each.

I agree about not working through breaks or doing unpaid overtime. I used to do this (not in teaching) but then realised that my efforts weren't appreciated. So I stopped putting myself out for them.
Now they know how much I used to do but I won't go back to doing it. I know a lot of teachers do extra for the kids but it's so wrong.
I don't even really think the government should pay. It should be parents, except some of them can't afford it. No easy answer.

This is typical. Breakfast bars for kids whose parents don't feed them; resources that schools won't pay for; extras to make lessons more enjoyable; prizes for reading competition to encourage kids to read more books - I pay for these as a matter of course. I agree that I shouldn't have to.

@SilverDragonfly1 And yet, where did the imperative to spend your entire budget or lose it come from but the Government? well the government at the time I’m thinking of was broadly Labour, but I don’t think that made much difference. Under Labour you’d assume that state employees would be comfortable with spending only what they need, then asking for more when they need and getting it then, but that isn’t how it worked. DM and colleagues had all manner of political opinions and unions but the rush to (mis)spend budgets at year end for fear of losing it and ask for higher next year was the standard practice workplace culture over decades. That isn’t the government, its individuals doing something because its just what you do, even though they know its wrong and it was an obscene amount of taxpayers money. It seems much more accountable now but has tipped too far in the opposite direction if teachers are having to use their own wages at all. You mention ‘the government’ as though its the party but its all the state, all one giant thing, ticking along run by civil servants mainly not just the ones we vote in or out.

I‘ve see this at work too when I first started out, with the local council regularly placing big, vague orders at budget year end without a clue what they were even using the money for, they just needed to spend it (those were in the Blair years BTW). I once had to chase our local council because they’d paid for a massive order they’d placed but hadn’t given enough specification for me to make it. They just needed it to be in that year’s budget. Then they forgot and I had to keep chasing them, because I’m not a thief and they didn’t want a refund, they said they’d sort it eventually. It was normal for them at the time.

I do think that it makes sense for schools/LAs to charge parents for consumables and supply them on site. Schools have much better buying power than individual teachers and parents so it works out cheaper for families ultimately, and it addresses the disgraceful practice of teachers spending their own money.

I spent £350 quid on a laptop at the start of lockdown too. Really wish I hadn't now to be honest. I'm whining a bit because just fed up of it all, sorry!