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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not understand why so many people view the wealth of others as public property

531 replies

FrogspawnSmoothie · 09/08/2020 06:08

I've been noticing a lot of posts lately saying things like 'we need to sort out the wealth divide' etc and calling for the wealthy to pay for xyz 'because they can afford to', and I must say I've never quite shared this mentality.

I can see why people start to think this way when we're constantly told things like '99% of the nation's wealth is owned by 1% of the population', making it sound like they're hoarding resources. But the thing is, it's not a tin of biscuits given to the population which is now being hoarded by a few greedy chubsters. It may well have been foreign investment, for instance, which wasn't otherwise going to be invested in a UK business to then benefit the economy through taxes as it does. I go to work and earn my income, and that money is mine - I imagine most people would consider their paycheck to be their own.

I think of it like two farmers. One innovates in his processes and works out how to grow more apples with the same resources. He then reinvests his extra profit into better equipment and buys more land. Eventually, he owns 75% of the apples in the town, despite being only one of many farmers. I'm not convinced he now needs to start giving his apples to the other disgruntled farmers who envy his wealth, especially as he's now paying much more tax.

I'll admit it's a pretty simplistic way of looking at it (I'm no economist) but I'm not convinced that all the people moaning about the rich have given it a particularly nuanced consideration either. I was listening to some prat of a manbunned barista banging on about socialism and 'redistribution of wealth' in Costa today, and gotta admit I just thought to myself 'sounds like you should've worked harder at school, mate.' 🤷‍♀️

OP posts:
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VinylDetective · 09/08/2020 17:15

[quote Leaannb]@VinylDetective they need to figure it out. Welfare benefits should not be life long. It most definitely shouldn't be generational meaning that their entire families stay on welfare forever which is happening in the States and in the UK[/quote]
No, you need to figure it out. If you advocate removing a basic safety net of welfare, you need to be able to also advocate a sensible solution for carrying that out.

Pumperthepumper · 09/08/2020 17:16

[quote Leaannb]@VinylDetective they need to figure it out. Welfare benefits should not be life long. It most definitely shouldn't be generational meaning that their entire families stay on welfare forever which is happening in the States and in the UK[/quote]
How do you figure out ‘no money’? Do you actually have an answer for this, is it worth my time?

Frankel1 · 09/08/2020 17:16

@Stripesgalore

Is removal of selective education a socialist principle? Cuba has a selective education system.
Socialists claim to want fairness and private and grammar schools are seen by many as divisive, giving an unfair advantage to the students and perpetuating the gap between rich and poor. I think the last Labour manifesto planned to start abolition of private schools by removing charitable status and take it from there. However I’m happy to be corrected.
Leaannb · 09/08/2020 17:16

@Pumperthejumper...No not too lazy that would be them not bettering themselves. If they don't receive free to low cost housing,free food, free healthcare etc....they would have no choice but to.figure it out. I'm not the lazy one in this situation. That would be the people who.absolutely refuse to better themselves. You can't live off handouts forever or you shouldn't

bloopie · 09/08/2020 17:16

@Leaannb did you say you have 300k income a year in passive income? What generates that?

Stripesgalore · 09/08/2020 17:19

Selective schools may be seen by many as divisive and unfair, but that doesn’t mean that it is a principle of socialism that selective schools should be removed.

Pumperthepumper · 09/08/2020 17:19

[quote Leaannb]@Pumperthejumper...No not too lazy that would be them not bettering themselves. If they don't receive free to low cost housing,free food, free healthcare etc....they would have no choice but to.figure it out. I'm not the lazy one in this situation. That would be the people who.absolutely refuse to better themselves. You can't live off handouts forever or you shouldn't[/quote]
Still waiting for your suggestions on how this would work (getting a bit embarrassed for you now though)

How do you magic up no money? How do you feed your children with no money?

Isn’t lethal injection kinder than starving entire families to death?

Also, why do you think the children are responsible for their parents decisions? You decided to relax and take it easy on your little salary, why do you not love your children enough to be a multi-millionaire?

lampshadery · 09/08/2020 17:19

I do think that in general if you get a good education and work hard you've got a good chance of attaining a decent quality of life - with there being exceptions of course where some people suffer unfortunate obstacles due to matters outside of their control (illness, disability, poverty whilst growing up, etc).

OP I don't think these things are as 'exceptional' as you think they are.

I know Mumsnet seemingly has a lot of people who move into catchment areas for good schools etc. but in real life a lot of people just send their child to the local school however it performs. Because it isn't financially possible for them to move into the catchment area of a good school. They didn't 'grow up in poverty'.

1 in 5 people are disabled.

Are these 'unfortunate obstacles'? Seems that you think of as an 'unfortunate obstacle' is just normal life for a lot of people.

Leaannb · 09/08/2020 17:22

@PumpertheJumper...You use that 5 years to go to work, to go to school to get a better job and do better for yourself and for your family. People have become too dependent on welfare benefits. They know the government and higher taxes paid by the upper middle class is going to support them. They have no incentive to do better. They can just keep plodding along while other people support them. Just like with this crazy wealth sharing shit....If my wealth is to be given to others why should I keep busting my ads day in and day out? Why don't I just stop working, close my business and live off my retirement which isn't taxable? Who is going to support these people then.

Pumperthepumper · 09/08/2020 17:23

[quote Leaannb]@PumpertheJumper...You use that 5 years to go to work, to go to school to get a better job and do better for yourself and for your family. People have become too dependent on welfare benefits. They know the government and higher taxes paid by the upper middle class is going to support them. They have no incentive to do better. They can just keep plodding along while other people support them. Just like with this crazy wealth sharing shit....If my wealth is to be given to others why should I keep busting my ads day in and day out? Why don't I just stop working, close my business and live off my retirement which isn't taxable? Who is going to support these people then.[/quote]
What happens after five years if they don’t do it though? Why won’t you answer?

VinylDetective · 09/08/2020 17:24

Why don't I just stop working, close my business and live off my retirement which isn't taxable?

Yes, why don’t you? Do you not pay tax on retirement income in the US? Because you sure as hell do here.

Pumperthepumper · 09/08/2020 17:24

Also I doubt you work hard if you only bring in 300k. Work harder and you too could be a millionaire - for your poor children’s sake if nothing else.

Stripesgalore · 09/08/2020 17:24

If large numbers of people are left with no money to feed, clothe and house themselves, common ways of ‘figuring out’ what to do about it include revolution, civil war, armed militias, corruption, mass increase in organised crime, people trafficking, kidnappings, dictatorships and genocide.

Bananabread8 · 09/08/2020 17:25

@NotMyTimes your dam right it’s not fair. The man who owns weather spoons would rather send his workers to get a job in Tesco than bail his staff out! Who’s money he is wanting? I don’t think that was fair!

Leaannb · 09/08/2020 17:26

[quote bloopie]@Leaannb did you say you have 300k income a year in passive income? What generates that? [/quote]
No. I have over 300,000 earned income and 150,000 passive income. I own several properties both here and in the States. That's just my income. Not including my husband's

bloopie · 09/08/2020 17:28

So your properties generate 150k?

bloopie · 09/08/2020 17:28

how did you come to own that many properties?

Leaannb · 09/08/2020 17:32

@Pumperthepumper

Also I doubt you work hard if you only bring in 300k. Work harder and you too could be a millionaire - for your poor children’s sake if nothing else.
I already am.....I alone make 450,000 dollars a year. My husband makes roughly the same. The only bills we have is car insurance,property taxes and utilities...
Original poster
FrogspawnSmoothie · 09/08/2020 17:32

Funny you should mention being a bin man - because I’m pretty sure bin men might do a ‘dirty’ job but they’re quite a long way from minimum wage and (from what I understand) can actually shorten their days quite significantly if they get through their route quickly. Unlike a care worker looking after elderly people who will often do 12 hour shifts at minimum wage - although don’t forget they have the opportunity to earn more by doing overnight shifts.

Gone are the days when binmen could finish their round early and rake in the overtime - many councils are now helped by private waste companies as they can't deal with the workload.

Average salary for a binman in July 2020 is £17,245. That's not a lot for doing the third most dangerous job in the UK (after sea fishermen and farmers). I was a driver in the commercial waste sector so paid quite well.

OP posts:
bloopie · 09/08/2020 17:32

and I assume your 300k job didn't involve much education?

userd · 09/08/2020 17:36

Wow, someone is telling others to work hard & not rely on the state while simultaneously expecting others to generate an income for her in the form of rent & then states how equal society it is & you just need to work harder. 🤣🤣

Original poster
FrogspawnSmoothie · 09/08/2020 17:36

Also, middle class people talk about sharing wealth but it's just not how human nature works.

Look how quickly all the middle class shoppers emptied all the shelves of food in recent months, leaving only scraps for all the key workers/night workers etc. It was all about looking out for no1.

OP posts:
Leaannb · 09/08/2020 17:39

@bloopie

how did you come to own that many properties?
I own 11 homes. 6 in the US, 3 in England and 2 in Wales. I also own a marina,2 strip malls and 100 acres of mountain acreage.....My husband and I were dual military. We earned 2 very well paying salaries but only lived off of one and saved and invested the rest. Including our hazard pay and bonus's. We both chose to invest our money. Mine into real estate and he became a champ at investing into small businesses especially small time commercial owner operated fisheries.
Stripesgalore · 09/08/2020 17:40

That’s why we don’t leave it down to human nature. We instead put laws in place to ensure everything isn’t a dog eat dog nightmare.

Devilishpyjamas · 09/08/2020 17:42

Whether or not you spend time in Wales you're American leaannb - which is going to alter your perspective. And the American approach to work/benefits/vulnerable is v. different from here. I lived in Japan but my perspective was always formed by being British and growing up in the UK, I actually searched to see whether you were the raving Farage lover that used to post on MN. So American is probably a better explanation.