AIBU to think DD should be paid for work absence due to Covid-19?

[NanaGary]

DD is a single mum and has 10-year-old twins. One of them is being treated with steroids for a kidney condition that has suddenly flared up. Steroids are immunosuppressant so she HAS to isolate for at least 11 weeks and DD has to stay home to look after her. Her employers - an NHS hospital (and incidentally the one that's treating the child)! - say they won't pay her salary. Is this unreasonable? Has anyone else had a similar experience?

paid not apid

@Ellisandra

No chance of the child’s father contributing to the shielding required by increasing maintenance to reduce the income shortfall? As ever, the economic burden is on the mother (apologies if their father has died and I’m off base there)

I wouldn’t expect an employer to cover 11 weeks, but I would expect them to bend over backwards to give some as paid compassionate leave, some paid parental leave, some paid annual leave. I’d also expect them to be as flexible as possible - for example, if it’s just being at home for childcare rather than isolating herself, I’d expect her employer to give her the pick of shifts that would work around other family members being able to provide childcare.

The problem is, loads of staff are going to be off, and loads are going to have childcare issues. Short term sick leave while isolating etc etc. Shifts still have to be covered and summer is the worst time for people being off. Also, if the child is being isolated you have to restrict who is coming near her and who they are coming into contact with otherwise.

OP, I feel for your daughter, and hope she can manage to get at least some of the weeks covered with carers leave, emergency leave, compassionate leave etc. She should check the trust leave policy and maybe with a union if she is in one.

Also- you don't say what role she does, but if it's non-clinical, any chance of being able to work from home or redeploy so she can?

Who has said she needs to isolate for 11 weeks? Drs are reluctant for children to shield unless it really is needed. There is a fantastic charity called NeST, they recently held a conference which spoke about nephrotic syndrome and coronavirus and it was hugely reassuring.

My DD(19) is on high dose steroids, she started about three weeks ago and was told that as shielding is nearly over she doesn’t need to shield she should just be careful.

@FrodosRing I absolutely agree... my reference to bending over backwards - they could do that and the outcome still be that there’s not much they can do.

Why should the employee pay if it’s not the employee who is sick? A mix of paid compassionate, unpaid parental and annual leave may be the fairest way of doing it

Many thanks for your comments, advice and good wishes. DD is finally being offered 7 days' holiday pay, as updownroundand round suggested, and yes Lazypuppy, she's now been told if she's not back by 26th August her contract will be terminated. TheLegendofZelda is absolutely right about the complications of treatment for nephrotic syndrome - which she initially had in the autumn and was then hospitalised for 2 weeks - a traumatic experience for her as well as for DD. Her urine has to be tested every day and an eagle eye kept on her for any signs of another relapse - which would mean an increased dose and even longer isolation. So finding an alternative carer wasn't simple - and don't forget she's a twin - there's another child to deal with too, who either had to go somewhere else for 11 weeks (or more if there are any more relapses - there's been one already) or isolate with her. Having experienced caring for this condition, DD was not willing to hand this over to anyone else. When you're isolating it's just not an option to have other people popping in to do bits of childcare. I get the message that it's unlikely she'll get any back pay, but it's been a cruel shock and entirely due to the pandemic that she is in this situation and has lost around £4,000 and probably her job as well. Being an NHS hero doesn't earn you any special treatment. I can understand why, but it's very hard.

NanaGary my son has NS, the first 15 months were very hard and I think he managed about 10 weeks in total during those months without any steroids as he had multiple relapses. We finally found the right combination of treatment and he has been relapse and steroid since June 2019, he actually stopped medication in June and has been fine. It is a worry but there are multiple treatments that can be tried.

I would ask your DD to double check whether your GD does need to shield.

I have so much empathy for your daughter and GD but ultimately, it’s not her employer’s problem. Sounds a bit blunt but taking emotion out of it, she is not the sick one. It should be compassionate leave, annual and/or parental.
Can you daughter be temporarily redeployed into a role that works from home? That’d be an option!

Well, interesting to see so many people eager to explain why I am being unreasonable, but I also see today that Andy Burnham says "NHS Test and Trace will never work properly until everyone who works who is told to self-isolate can do so immediately without fear of losing their pay or job" and Frances O'Grady says "Wherever possible, employers should do the right thing and pay workers their full pay. But the government must also ensure that every worker gets financial support". My DGD has to isolate: she's only 10, so DD has to isolate too. It's not complicated really.

@NanaGary

Well, interesting to see so many people eager to explain why I am being unreasonable, but I also see today that Andy Burnham says "NHS Test and Trace will never work properly until everyone who works who is told to self-isolate can do so immediately without fear of losing their pay or job" and Frances O'Grady says "Wherever possible, employers should do the right thing and pay workers their full pay. But the government must also ensure that every worker gets financial support". My DGD has to isolate: she's only 10, so DD has to isolate too. It's not complicated really.

While I really sympathise with your DD, there's a massive difference between isolating for two weeks and for nearly three months. Very few employers could afford to pay someone who wasn't working, in full, for that length of time. The vast majority of companies now don't pay sick pay beyond SSP for long-term sickness for precisely this reason - it's unaffordable.

I don't agree your DD should lose her job but it does put employers in a difficult position as they're going to have to cover her shifts too, with all the costs associated with a new starter. It's nobody's fault - it's just a very unfortunate set of circumstances.

I don't think this has anything to do with her being NHS either - no company I've ever worked for would pay for people to be off work for three months. They may get some compassionate leave and unpaid parental leave, but that would be it. The other option is for your DD to go and see her GP and get signed off with stress, but that could cause more problems on her return to work if they think she's abusing the system.

@KeyWorker

I would suggest that she’s speaks to her GP about the stress and anxiety of the situation, they may feel it’s appropriate to sign her off.

🙄 So cheat the system then

@NanaGary

Well, interesting to see so many people eager to explain why I am being unreasonable, but I also see today that Andy Burnham says "NHS Test and Trace will never work properly until everyone who works who is told to self-isolate can do so immediately without fear of losing their pay or job" and Frances O'Grady says "Wherever possible, employers should do the right thing and pay workers their full pay. But the government must also ensure that every worker gets financial support". My DGD has to isolate: she's only 10, so DD has to isolate too. It's not complicated really.

@NanaGary

Lots of people have offered sympathy and empathy but you asked our opinions. Morally, it would be nice for them to pay but they don’t have to and 3 months is a long time to expect full pay. You haven’t said if your daughter has asked to be redeployed to a home based role? Or can she use a mixture of annual leave, parental leave and compassionate leave?

That quote from Andy Burnham is clearly referring to the 2 week self isolation period, not 3 months. Companies, even huge ones such as the NHS are simply not going to be able to support people on full pay for that long. Your daughter is sadly unlikely to be the only one in that kind of situation.