just been told I have to go back to the office

[Sarah510]

and I don't want to!!!!! Have been wfh since lockdown and I love it. The freedom of it, and just not having to spend 2+hours commuting. I really thought I would be allowed to keep wfh as my job is not customer facing - I can do everything on teams, and a lot of it is with people in the far east so most is virtual anyway. But my team leader is the leader of another team as well, and she said to me today that she has put me on the rota for coming back to the office. I tried to say that I was happy to help out at busy times but that my priority had to be my own job, and that that wasn't people facing, and that it was going to be difficult to have these team meetings in a large office setting. She was unmovable though. I feel it's unfair. I mean, I'm not on that team, I'm a separate team, just me, the TL and a part-time person who is shielding so will not be coming back. I know people will slate me on here, but I really thought that things would change after lockdown. Team Leader is very anti wfh - she had denied requests even before Covid. She seems to be oldfashioned - like she always made a point of checking if I was in at 9am and telling me off if I was 5 mins late kind of thing. Never mind that I've been working weekends, late nights, early mornings since wfh, she just seems to want everyone back in the office under her watchful eye even though everyone is saying productivity is way up since we have been wfh.

Feeling miserable :( I guess I can 'see how it goes' and maybe put in a formal request to wfh. I tried to say to her that it was matter of being flexible but she's just not - she said no.

Some of the replies here are ridiculous. Who are these dinosaurs obsessed with presenteeism?

I'm not going back to a full-time office job. If I'm forced I'll be there as long as it takes me to find another job which, looking at the market for my particular role, won't be long. I'll do two days in the office max.

Thankfully it looks as though my company has finally seen the light; before COVID it was in the dark ages with some of the people on this thread, and WFH was frowned upon. Now they aren't making any noises about reopening, and my head of department says he doubts there will be any suggestion of going back full-time.

Employees working from home, assuming they can still do their job, SAVES employers money. I don't know why people are suggesting office-based workers should be paid more for something that doesn't benefit their employer.

It’s a nightmare to manage and causes resentment amongst other staff. You might be easily contactable and efficient but others may not and they can’t show favouritism.

When our staff were WFH, dh ( owner) bumped in to one of them in a garden centre with his wife, people with really bad hangovers not completing work on time and on Monday bumped in to another coming out of Tesco’s with a four pack beer. He just said ‘caught me red handed’. The later was still allowed to work from home because he was originally shielding and still had anxiety about going out.

Party’s over I’m afraid.

magnetfisher, thanks for putting it so well :)

I think my problem with it being 'unfair' is that as I said before NOBODY has been in the office since March, so there's been no resentment building up by anyone. I'm not in the big team, I'm never invited to their meetings, I'm not included in any of their tasks, I'm in a separate team, and yet team leader has "decided" I need to be included as someone coming back to the office. I have nothing customer facing. And she's telling me I need to be flexible and learn how to do reception duties (was never a part of my job before, or mentioned ever before). I''m not happy :( Don't know whether to 'see how it goes' though I said that to her, and she said 'no'. So maybe I should make a case now before I get sucked in to other things that aren't part of my job. Or maybe my job has changed now. I'm just frustrated I suppose. She refused my colleague to wfh even before Covid, or when it was all kicking off, my colleague has very severe chest problems, and she asked to wfh and the team leader said no. She (colleague) was out sick a lot I think at least 3-4 weeks or more actually. So it just seems I've come against a manager with a problem with wfh. I mean so many days I've sat alone in the office. Its just frustrating.

Don't know whether to 'see how it goes' though I said that to her, and she said 'no'. So maybe I should make a case now before I get sucked in to other things that aren't part of my job. Or maybe my job has changed now.

If she tells you you need to do something—like coming back to the office, performing a task etc.—you don’t tell her you’ll “see how it goes”. That’s rude and insubordinate and you don’t get to make that choice.

If you don’t like the duties in your job, or that your job isn’t work from home, you quit. You don’t tell management they need to be flexible or you’ll give it a go.

Learn some respect, OP.

Most people have proved that they can work from home. They were told to work from home with no warning and they didn’t choose to do it. However in most cases productivity has remained, sick leave zero, colleague bullying zero and mental health and work life balance improved. I think from an HR perspective most employers would now find it difficult to refuse a flexible working request.

The day some one “tells me off” for being 5 minutes late in is the day I start leaving on the dot every day...

@crowsfeet57

she always made a point of checking if I was in at 9am and telling me off if I was 5 mins late kind of thing

Bosses tend to be funny about that kind of thing. I think that's why it's called work. If we could do what just we wanted, it would be called play!

In some sectors, sure. There are plenty of us in roles where that sort of thing would just be plain shit management. And actually, it sounds like it is in OPs, since it's inspired her to clock off on the dot when she wouldn't otherwise.

Some people seem to think companies exist for the express purpose of paying them a wage rather than making a profit for shareholders. It's quite the reverse and if you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen.

The day some one “tells me off” for being 5 minutes late in is the day I start leaving on the dot every day...

I started looking for a new job the day I was told it was unacceptable I arrived at 09:02 despite being in until 9pm the previous 3-4 days to cover someone else's work while they were on holiday.
That wasn't the only reason, but it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

@Mattttttt

The day some one “tells me off” for being 5 minutes late in is the day I start leaving on the dot every day...

Then presumably you work in a sector where you're allowed to be pretty flexible.

Some sectors (retail comes to mind) you have to be in a certain time to open the shop, but you also have the benefit that you can leave bang on time at the end of the day, too.

In jobs like that, you're paid per minute so if you clock in late, you get your pay deducted. But if you clock in early or work late, you get paid for every minute of it.

@Frazzled13 that does sound entirely unacceptable!

I agree re the shareholder value point

Plus in the dark economic days that are going to be a reality for the next couple of years at least, so many zombie companies will go under. And I suspect many of them are zombies because they’ve got so many unproductive paper pushers on the payroll. Those jobs will simply disappear.

My advice would be work hard, work isn’t a lifestyle choice, it’s called work for a reason. Be grateful to be employed, earn your credit and then ask for reasonable adjustments. Which could be a balance. I don’t think it’s right you can just demand to be wfh forever now.

Disagree with people saying Microsoft Teams works well! Certainly doesn’t where I work.

And we have no idea whether everyone wfh has benefited efficiency etc because, in the vast majority of cases it hasn’t been measured. My guess is that it hasn’t, particularly given that many of us have DC home all the time.

I do think we could end up shooting our selves in the foot if we push too much for 100% wfh. If tech is available then it is available for anyone in the world who might be significantly cheaper.

Personally, for any roles that I have worked in I’ve opted for those that allow some wfh but expect some office presence. For me that is the ideal.

“ Companies insisting on office working will have to pay more”

Er, no. Will be far fewer jobs and competition for the jobs there are, so, in general, pay is unlikely to increase!

I think everyone understands that there are certain jobs where you do have to be present at a certain time because you’re dealing with people or performing a specific function. But in jobs where that doesn’t apply, I honestly cannot think of a genuinely compelling reason why it matters what time people clock on and off, where they work from, what they wear, etc, providing the work is done. If I worked in a hospital or a shop for instance, yes I would expect to adhere to those rules. I could never work in an office environment where management were petty enough to think those things matter, and thankfully I don’t! I told my boss working from home has done wonders for my mental health and that when we do eventually return to the office I’d like to continue to do 2-3 days a week from home. She immediately said that wasn’t a problem and not to even think about returning any time soon.

As an end consumer:
Admiral gave me a £25 discount but it now takes over an Hour to get through by phone
NatWest had 5 branches I tried to visit closed and a 40 minute wait when I found one open- albeit on reduced hours
Unable to contact anyone by phone at axa- email only and a 6 week wait
2 days to get through to Virgin Atlantic and a wait if hours for virgin money
Searchex for a house took 6 weeks rather than 2 as staff working from home

Many more examples. So it may be working for staff but is it working for service users?

"Imagine how your colleagues in the office are feeling"

That is the most childish reason to stop WFH

She sounds a shit manager, who watches the clock because she doesn't know much else

Before I retired, I was managing teams in 3 countries; some were in the office, some at home,
very different pay scales, some coping with tornados or civil unrest
Unfair ?

I'd never even met most of them f2f, but it wasn't necessary.
I was supervising the work they did, not watching their time-keeping.

Of course some jobs need actual presence, but many don't
and it is sometimes just control freak managers who want everyone there

It’s a nightmare to manage

Not if you're a decent manager.

Unfortunately my DD can't wfh. She has been working on the Frontline for minimum wage, zero contract hours, no sick pay and until very recently insufficient ppe. In fact she didn't get a Covid test till last week. She has a DD who has an auto immune blood disorder who is shielding since first week in March. She has been putting herself and DD in danger doing her job. She doesn't have a canteen having to have her breaks with the clients as they cannot be left alone ( severely autistic young adults with severe learning difficulties) and staff are short ( I wonder why?) She is a single parent and over half her wages goes on private rent because she cannot get either a council house or housing association house, her universal credit for Dgd stopped in June although Dgd does not go to uni till September, has never had help with rent earning £2 too much a week for help. If it were not for me they would be using foodbanks. So my answer is get back to work! You have had it easy for far too long!

£2 a month too much that should be not week

OP, has your manager completed a Covid - secure work place risk assessment?

How do you know this is because staff are wfh @Polnm? More likely to be because there are fewer staff working, I'd have thought.

I totally hear you OP. I've been back in the office for a few weeks now and still can't get over it Was much more productive at home.

@Sostenueto I’m sorry for your dds situation. However , your last sentence re: get back to work is quite rude as many of us have continued working. Many have worked even harder than ever. The only difference is that instead of being in an office we were doing it at home. Don’t imply that because we’ve been at home our life has been easy please. It might not been as hard as your dd but ... it’s rude to imply it.