To think shop workers shouldn't be asking people why they aren't wearing a mask?

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

My friend is epileptic. She can't wear a mask because it takes very little to trigger a fit, and wearing a mask creates too much of a risk. Over the last 2 days she's been asked in 3 different places (Greggs, Morrison's and the Co-Op) in an abrupt and snotty way "Where is your mask?" By staff. This is with lots of other customers around. She responded "I'm medically exempt" and has been asked why she's exempt in two of those places. She's also been told (online) that she should stay in to protect others and get someone else to do her shopping etc.

AIBU to think this is appalling ableist behaviour to put someone on the spot in front of others? She doesn't owe anyone her medical history. Yes there's sunflower lanyards she can pick up but she's apprehensive about wearing anything around her neck for obvious reasons. Why can't we just trust others that they're doing it in their best interests?

I think it's better that sainsburys show empathy, personally, but that seems lost on a lot of people! Maybe the fact that sainsburys have that message means that people who cannot wear masks feel less isolated, and less anxious about going to the shops. It makes me feel a lot more comfortable about possibly venturing out sometime soon. But I can see why that wouldn't appeal those who would see disabled people stay at home, because it's far too understanding.

Anonmouse1 are you really that thick that you can't think of a single reason why someone couldn't keep a mask on?

Government - "You must wear a mask unless medically exempt in a shop, shop assistants, you are responsible for making sure that happens, we've told people that they can be fined £100 however there's no back up for you on this and the police have said don't call us if it happens, we're the last resort"

General public - "Aren't shop assistants jumped up little jobsworths on a power trip for asking why I'm not wearing a mask!"

Also general public "Why aren't the staff doing more to make sure people are wearing masks in shops!!"

My eldest son is exempt, he doesn't wear a mask or lanyard but he's never been challenged despite being out & about often. He's (obviously) male, 6'2", 15 stone & walks around very confidently. That tells me all I need to know about the mask enquirers. There's a word for people who seek to dominate/humiliate those they perceive as weaker than themselves.

.....we've told people that they can be fined £100

When is this ever going to happen though?

Say there’s a woman who hates wearing a mask and so decides not to wear one.

She goes shopping and is stopped by a police officer who ask why she’s not wearing a mask...is she either going to:

A). Be honest and tell the police that she doesn’t like them so doesn’t bother wearing them and this receive a fine.

B). Lie and tell them she’s medically exempt.

Are police officers allowed to ask about the reason why someone is exempt? Are they allowed to pry into someone’s medical history? And even if they do, who are they to tell someone whether the reason is a good enough one to warrant them exemption or that it’s just an excuse and so issue the person a fine?

If Police Officers are no different to shop workers in terms of what they can or cannot ask regarding claimed exemptions then what’s even the point of them? Why are fines being used as a scaremongering tactic when actually all anyone has to do to avoid a fine is say “I’m exempt” without having to offer any proof of this (I.e actual proof, not just a lanyard that anyone can buy).

Yabu. They have every right to ask.

"The rules will be enforced by the police, not shop workers, the Government says.

The big retailers have made it clear that they will not expect staff to challenge customers. That isn't thier job."

So they say. Meanwhile, in the real world, it isn't working out like that. As someone up thread said, you're either a jumped up jobsworth or endangering lives.

@Yeahnahmum

Yabu. They have every right to ask.

Well they don't.

I'm still not clear why you believe you are exempt and your posts seem very cryptic and more than a bit snotty.

@LangClegsInSpace

*I don't believe I am exempt. I am exempt. My GP says I am. Yet amateur medics on here, like you, think they know better. They don't.

Can you say which one you fall under?

You really think I should expose my confidential medical history on the internet to random trolls? Er, no.

You have no right to ask, that's what this thread's about, yet here you are demanding that I give you my medical history. Behold the irony.

@Lockheart

It IS the law to wear a mask OP. The law is being expanded even further from the 8 August.

You might want to check your own facts before calling other posters "thick fucks".

www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own#when-to-wear-a-face-covering

"In England, you must wear a face covering by law in the following settings:

public transport
indoor transport hubs (airports, rail and tram stations and terminals, maritime ports and terminals, bus and coach stations and terminals)
shops and supermarkets (places which are open to the public and that wholly or mainly offer goods or services for retail sale or hire)
indoor shopping centres
banks, building societies, and post offices (including credit unions, short-term loan providers, savings clubs and money service businesses)
You are expected to wear a face covering immediately before entering any of these settings and must keep it on until you leave.

For members of the public, from 8 August the places where you will have to wear a face covering will be expanded to include:

funeral directors
premises providing professional, legal or financial services
cinemas
theatres
bingo halls
concert halls
museums, galleries, aquariums, indoor zoos or visitor farms, or other indoor tourist, heritage or cultural sites.
nail, beauty, hair salons and barbers - other than where necessary to remove for treatments
massage centres
public areas in hotels and hostels
place of worship
libraries and public reading rooms
community centres
social clubs
tattoo and piercing parlours
indoor entertainment venues (amusement arcades, funfairs, adventure activities e.g. laser quest, go-karting, escape rooms, heritage sites etc)
storage and distribution facilities
veterinary services.
auction houses
We recommend face coverings are worn in these settings now but this will not be mandatory until 8 August. Further information will be available soon."

Yeah so you might want to quote the whole thing where it goes on to say people can still be exempt on the same grounds as before. Don't just cherry pick to suit your argument.

The problem here is people either don't read the rules or they change them to what they think they should be. Funny really because these are likely the same people who think the rules should be rigidly stuck to at all times... Oh except the one about not challenging people who aren't in a mask.

It really isn't hard, whatever your opinion on the subject is, the guidance is quite clear that you are not to challenge someone who isn't wearing a mask, shop workers should not question this, exempt people do not have to carry round a badge or card, they do have to divulge their private medical history to shop workers or members of the public and the only people who can ask are police officers.

It doesn't matter what you think. That is the guidance whether you like it or not.

They do not have to divulge*

Government - "You must wear a mask unless medically exempt in a shop, shop assistants, you are responsible for making sure that happens, we've told people that they can be fined £100 however there's no back up for you on this and the police have said don't call us if it happens, we're the last resort"

Where have they asked shop workers to enforce anything? The guidance specifically states that the only people who should challenge non mask wearing is a police officer or the like.

Maybe the fact that sainsburys have that message means that people who cannot wear masks feel less isolated, and less anxious about going to the shops.

How about also showing support for staff and customers who are extremely clinically vulnerable and feel anxious about people not wearing masks, not socially distancing, coughing everywhere, blowing their nose and then handing money to cashiers etc? Maybe the tannoy announcement could also remind people to socially distance and practice good hand hygiene, whilst also respecting that some people can't wear masks?

@FruitLikeAPeach

Government - "You must wear a mask unless medically exempt in a shop, shop assistants, you are responsible for making sure that happens, we've told people that they can be fined £100 however there's no back up for you on this and the police have said don't call us if it happens, we're the last resort"

Where have they asked shop workers to enforce anything? The guidance specifically states that the only people who should challenge non mask wearing is a police officer or the like.

But workplaces are expected to be Covid safe and for some places, like shops, this includes wearing masks. It's really a pointless law if no one is going to enforce it. It's literally just asking people to voluntarily wear one. So many of my customers are complaining about wearing a mask, they find it uncomfortable, glasses are steaming up, as someone wearing one at work all day it's not easy especially when it's hot - if wearing it isn't enforced I will not be surprised if more and more people stop wearing them.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras great idea - why don't you suggest it to them?

Okay but that still doesn't mean that shopworkers have been asked to enforce anything as that PP suggested. They haven't, quite the opposite actually.

And it may be a pointless law, but it's what it says. There are far too many people spouting untruths on threads like this 'they have a right to ask', 'you should expect to be challenged', 'the government asked shop assistants to enforce it'.

[quote IAmFleshIAmBone]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras great idea - why don't you suggest it to them? [/quote]
Because they won't do it for fear of complaints.

And tbf, when I've been in both the Tesco and the M&S by me, there have been posters and tannoy announcements asking people to social distance etc. Theres a big sign before you walk in saying 'please wear a mask'.

I just say I have a legitimate reason for not wearing a mask - I would be happy to talk at length about how they are ineffective and spread a culture of fear but we don’t often get to that point...

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras I do feel for you - I've worked in shops and people are truly disgusting. If I ever feel brave enough to leave the house again I won't be wearing a mask but I will be social distancing and maintaining personal hygiene. Anyone who doesn't do that is rather stupid.

@FruitLikeAPeach

Okay but that still doesn't mean that shopworkers have been asked to enforce anything as that PP suggested. They haven't, quite the opposite actually.

And it may be a pointless law, but it's what it says. There are far too many people spouting untruths on threads like this 'they have a right to ask', 'you should expect to be challenged', 'the government asked shop assistants to enforce it'.

So, government says that customers in shops must wear a mask.

They tell businesses that they must be Covid safe and what that entails.

The implication there is that businesses are responsible for those conditions being met. It's ridiculous to say that shops are not responsible for making sure that customers comply. Smoking isn't allowed inside a shop. If a customer started smoking who would you expect should ask them to stop or to leave? Yesterday a customer started queueing directly behind another customer at my checkout, rather than behind the appropriate line. Who was expected to ask them to step back thus enforcing social distancing?

If you don't want staff to even mention masks to people not wearing one you are making masks voluntary. Why have a law requiring them in that case? Why pressure people who don't like wearing them to wear them when lots of other people are taking advantage of the no challenge policy?

garlicmonkey
Exactly, there is definitely a word for the self appointed mask police.
They are like the bullies you got at school, utterly pathetic people treating people with disabilities the way they are, trying to humiliate them I front of others and telling them they shouldn’t go out.

Saint Boris knew from the start the mask law is window dressing, unenforceable and unworkable, and he probably knew the police would actually do nothing; maybe he even told police chiefs what to say. But I bet he also knew that certain members of the public would more than happy to “enforce” it; so that when it goes wrong, and disability discrimination happens, he can throw up his hands and say “nothing to do with me”. Just like he’s handled everything else, it’s all designed so he can say “not my fault”. All part of his strategy of divide and conquer, keeping the public distracted and squabbling with each other, so they’re not looking at him.

I would have thought they would avoid asking for their own safety - could be very dangerous to ask someone who becomes angry. It’s not their role to enforce this.

The person frothing at the illustration that oxygen sats aren’t affected by a mask - we routinely put masks on patients underneath oxygen masks delivering 15L of oxygen (the maximum via face mask) to transport patients to our ICU who are not yet intubated. These are obviously people who do not have normal lungs, that’s why they need so much oxygen and are about to be intubated. The mask does not affect their oxygen levels. They are still getting oxygen through it.