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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think shop workers shouldn't be asking people why they aren't wearing a mask?

752 replies

GlummyMcGlummerson · 05/08/2020 13:48

My friend is epileptic. She can't wear a mask because it takes very little to trigger a fit, and wearing a mask creates too much of a risk. Over the last 2 days she's been asked in 3 different places (Greggs, Morrison's and the Co-Op) in an abrupt and snotty way "Where is your mask?" By staff. This is with lots of other customers around. She responded "I'm medically exempt" and has been asked why she's exempt in two of those places. She's also been told (online) that she should stay in to protect others and get someone else to do her shopping etc.

AIBU to think this is appalling ableist behaviour to put someone on the spot in front of others? She doesn't owe anyone her medical history. Yes there's sunflower lanyards she can pick up but she's apprehensive about wearing anything around her neck for obvious reasons. Why can't we just trust others that they're doing it in their best interests?

OP posts:
HeIenaDove · 05/08/2020 23:37

"It didn't help with the Doctor with no health issues doing that silly oxygen monitor with and without a mask. Of course he wasn't affected, he doesn't have a bloody medical condition"

Im curious about NHS social media policy and whether or not there is one. Ive been discussing this on another thread, Because the mask shaming is contributing to the abuse disabled people have been getting, The friend i mentioned earlier used to work for a supermarket and there was social media policy there.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 05/08/2020 23:38

So everyone who can't wear masks - including some rape victims, some people with Down Syndrome - should just stay at home, yeah?

Well that's what many on MN have been saying, and are still saying now, about the vulnerable - we should stay at home indefinitely so that everyone else can get back to work, school and socialising. Didn't notice many people objecting when that's being said.

Nothing has changed in terms of ableism has it. There are people who think disabled people should be tucked away where they won't be a bother or hindrance.

Yep and if you are extremely clinically vulnerable you should be locked up at home until a vaccine is available, or you die, which of course wouldn't matter as much as if a person without a condition died.

GlummyMcGlummerson · 05/08/2020 23:39

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras that's a bad analogy - are you gong through airport security every day to simply buy a loaf of bread?

Airport staff are fully trained in conditions that mean people can't go through the detectors. It seems that "enforcement" of mask wearing is completely arbitrary and either assistants are taking it on themselves to challenge people when they shouldn't, or they've been badly trained.

OP posts:
LangClegsInSpace · 05/08/2020 23:40

@Lockheart

It IS the law to wear a mask OP. The law is being expanded even further from the 8 August.

You might want to check your own facts before calling other posters "thick fucks".

www.gov.uk/government/publications/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own/face-coverings-when-to-wear-one-and-how-to-make-your-own#when-to-wear-a-face-covering

"In England, you must wear a face covering by law in the following settings:

public transport
indoor transport hubs (airports, rail and tram stations and terminals, maritime ports and terminals, bus and coach stations and terminals)
shops and supermarkets (places which are open to the public and that wholly or mainly offer goods or services for retail sale or hire)
indoor shopping centres
banks, building societies, and post offices (including credit unions, short-term loan providers, savings clubs and money service businesses)
You are expected to wear a face covering immediately before entering any of these settings and must keep it on until you leave.

For members of the public, from 8 August the places where you will have to wear a face covering will be expanded to include:

funeral directors
premises providing professional, legal or financial services
cinemas
theatres
bingo halls
concert halls
museums, galleries, aquariums, indoor zoos or visitor farms, or other indoor tourist, heritage or cultural sites.
nail, beauty, hair salons and barbers - other than where necessary to remove for treatments
massage centres
public areas in hotels and hostels
place of worship
libraries and public reading rooms
community centres
social clubs
tattoo and piercing parlours
indoor entertainment venues (amusement arcades, funfairs, adventure activities e.g. laser quest, go-karting, escape rooms, heritage sites etc)
storage and distribution facilities
veterinary services.
auction houses
We recommend face coverings are worn in these settings now but this will not be mandatory until 8 August. Further information will be available soon."

If you are going to do a great big copy-paste you could at least be comprehensive. It is the law to wear a face covering in certain situations unless you are exempt ...
  1. When you do not need to wear a face covering

In settings where face coverings are required in England, there are some circumstances, for health, age or equality reasons, where people are not expected to wear face coverings. Please be mindful and respectful of such circumstances, noting that some people are less able to wear face coverings, and that the reasons for this may not be visible to others.

It is not compulsory for employees of indoor settings or transport workers to wear face coverings (see section 6), although employers may consider their use where appropriate and where other mitigations are not in place. Employers should continue to follow COVID-19 Secure guidelines to reduce the proximity and duration of contact between employees.

You do not need to wear a face covering if you have a legitimate reason not to. This includes (but is not limited to):

young children under the age of 11 (Public Health England do not recommended face coverings for children under the age of 3 for health and safety reasons)
not being able to put on, wear or remove a face covering because of a physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability
if putting on, wearing or removing a face covering will cause you severe distress
if you are travelling with or providing assistance to someone who relies on lip reading to communicate
to avoid harm or injury, or the risk of harm or injury, to yourself or others
to avoid injury, or to escape a risk of harm, and you do not have a face covering with you
to eat or drink if reasonably necessary
in order to take medication
if a police officer or other official requests you remove your face covering

There are also scenarios when you are permitted to remove a face covering when asked:

if asked to do so in a bank, building society, or post office for identification
if asked to do so by shop staff or relevant employees for identification, the purpose of assessing health recommendations, such as a pharmacist, or for age identification purposes including when buying age restricted products such as alcohol
if speaking with people who rely on lip reading, facial expressions and clear sound. Some may ask you, either verbally or in writing, to remove a covering to help with communication

Exemption Cards

Those who have an age, health or disability reason for not wearing a face covering should not be routinely asked to give any written evidence of this, this includes exemption cards. No person needs to seek advice or request a letter from a medical professional about their reason for not wearing a face covering.

Some people may feel more comfortable showing something that says they do not have to wear a face covering.This could be in the form of an exemption card, badge or even a home-made sign.

This is a personal choice and is not necessary in law.

Access exemption card templates

For exemptions in different parts of the UK please refer to the specific guidance for Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
----------
(see exactly the same link as the poster I have quoted)

GlummyMcGlummerson · 05/08/2020 23:40

@Viviennemary

I agree there is a conflict of interest here. No wonder cases are rising. The rule should be wear a mask or stay at home. No point in having all these exemptions. It just makes all these extra lockdown a complete and utter waste of time.
Yeah people exempt from wearing masks, disabled people, and their situations are so pointless Hmm
OP posts:
Willow2017 · 05/08/2020 23:43

Viviennemary
Everybody should wear a mask. It's the rule. I think she should shop online if she is unable to wear a mask.

Away and bile yer heid!
Thousands of people who cannot wear a mask should stay indoors until when? Next year? The year after?
Maybe round up everyone with a medical/mental health condition or past trauma which prevents them wearing one and dump them in some big housing estate somewhere out the way until somebody tells them it's ok to come out again? All those people who are currently working or need to take thier kids to school just stay the fuck at home? Live on fresh air till 'we' say so?
🤔🤔🤔

LangClegsInSpace · 05/08/2020 23:44

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

It's important for people who can't wear a face covering to know that the law is on their side

And for people who don't want to wear one to know that no one will challenge them. If however you are vulnerable due to a disability and therefore need people around you to wear a mask, or at the very least follow all of the other rules - ah, well, tough luck. However, take comfort in the fact that according to many on MN, you would have died soon anyway

Are you going to make another thread all about you again?
Lockheart · 05/08/2020 23:44

@LangClegsInSpace I have said several times that it is the law to wear a mask unless you are exempt.

The problem the police and so forth have is they lack the ability to mind read, and so don't know who is exempt until they ask the question.

If you're exempt then great, you can go into the shop / bank / wherever it may be, and you won't be fined

If you're not exempt and you're just being a dick then you can be refused service and fined.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 05/08/2020 23:46

@Pollypocket89

That's your choice if you want to travel that way.

A rape survivor shouldn't have to disclose anything at all to the poor assistant on the door at Tesco.

Government guidelines say Do Not Challenge people.

It really is that simple

It's as much my choice to travel that way as it is the choice of someone to go into a shop.

I carry a letter explaining why I can't comply with going through security arches. Why should I have to? If asking someone if they can wear a mask or not is an infringement of disability rights (which it might not be anyway if the condition does not meet the definition of a disability) then me having to carry a letter detailing my medical history to prove exemption must surely be an infringement of my rights?

What about my rights to not be breathed over, coughed over or have spit laden money handed to me at work? Ok, you can't wear a mask but that doesn't mean you have to.pyt money in your mouth or lean around my protective screen to talk to me or to hand me your money does it?

Haenow · 05/08/2020 23:48

@Lockheart

I understand what you’re saying. However, There’s a difference between asking if someone has a medical exemption (valid and lawful) and enquiring as to the details of their medical exemption. The latter is not acceptable. Medical information is highly confidential to the person and not relevant to a shop employee.

Pollypocket89 · 05/08/2020 23:49

No, but that's a daft example. People have to eat/but food, they don't have to get on a plane daily.

To the last bit, no of course you shouldn't have to put up with that. A lot of people are thick/gross/whatever, that's a separate issue that your employer should deal with. No one should go to work and have to experience that

Pollypocket89 · 05/08/2020 23:50

*buy food

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 05/08/2020 23:50

[quote GlummyMcGlummerson]@Hearhoovesthinkzebras that's a bad analogy - are you gong through airport security every day to simply buy a loaf of bread?

Airport staff are fully trained in conditions that mean people can't go through the detectors. It seems that "enforcement" of mask wearing is completely arbitrary and either assistants are taking it on themselves to challenge people when they shouldn't, or they've been badly trained. [/quote]
It's not just through airports though. It's anywhere that has the metal detector arches or wands - so in the past year that's been the O2, and various west end theatres too.

And you would think airport staff would be well trained but in the groups I belong to there have been many reports of people being strip searched for refusing to go through the detectors, both in the UK and abroad. Maybe people with certain disabilities shouldn't travel or go to the theatre, should we just stay at home?

Lockheart · 05/08/2020 23:52

@Haenow I totally agree, and I have not said details of anyone's medical history should be discussed in public. Just an "I'm exempt / medically exempt" or whatever level of detail you're comfortable going into should suffice.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 05/08/2020 23:52

@Pollypocket89

No, but that's a daft example. People have to eat/but food, they don't have to get on a plane daily.

To the last bit, no of course you shouldn't have to put up with that. A lot of people are thick/gross/whatever, that's a separate issue that your employer should deal with. No one should go to work and have to experience that

Oh, so if your job involves travel tough luck? Or you shouldn't have the same rights to go on holiday as able bodied people right?

As for the employer dealing with those situations - how?

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 05/08/2020 23:55

And I might just add, that the people putting money in their mouths and today, coughing, weren't wearing masks - so these are the people you are insisting have got exemptions. The people leaning around the screen are both mask and non mask wearers.

Pollypocket89 · 05/08/2020 23:55

I think I'm beginning to see @LangClegsInSpace's point...

Night

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 05/08/2020 23:58

Are you going to make another thread all about you again?

Oh I'm sorry, is it only people you approve of who are allowed to post?

I have a disability and I work in a shop - why can't I post on a thread about those issues, simply because I have a different view to yours?

DeeTractor · 05/08/2020 23:59

"Shop assistants seem to be loving this power. It's sick.

Fuck off. No we're not "loving it", infact I'd wager that the vast majority HATE it because of people spouting the usual "jobsworth/ power trip" shite on here, but the Government insist that we DO ask because amongst everything else retail staff have been expected to put up with during a pandemic, it's now somehow become our job to make sure this mask rule is being obeyed.

I do not give a shit why you do/ do not wear a mask.

TheGreatWave · 06/08/2020 00:01

Going through a metal detector is totally different, the consequences of something being missed is much higher than the person without a mask being in a supermarket.

Person A could have a bomb. Person B probably doesn't have covid, isn't in close contact with others for a significant length of time and hopefully isn't sneezing, coughing and singing in the middle aisles.

Haenow · 06/08/2020 00:03

@DeeTractor

"Shop assistants seem to be loving this power. It's sick.

Fuck off. No we're not "loving it", infact I'd wager that the vast majority HATE it because of people spouting the usual "jobsworth/ power trip" shite on here, but the Government insist that we DO ask because amongst everything else retail staff have been expected to put up with during a pandemic, it's now somehow become our job to make sure this mask rule is being obeyed.

I do not give a shit why you do/ do not wear a mask.

I do feel very sorry for any shop worker at this point. It’s not your job and you shouldn’t be asked to police this and risk abuse from customer.
backseatcookers · 06/08/2020 00:03

I have epilepsy and even pre covid I've worn a little rubber bracelet that says epilepsy on it, which has been great when I've had seizures in public. I would suggest she gets one of those as they can't do any damage if the worst happens and it also gives her a reference to show when people question her, so she doesn't have to engage too much about it.

TheGreatWave · 06/08/2020 00:08

Competing rights is always an issue, but in this case it is possible for both to be accommodated - non mask wearers keep to stringent SD measures, clinically vulnerable wear a suitable mask and keep to stringent SD measures.

People being disgusting and dirty is not a mask issue, Hooves ask your colleagues as I bet all the ones who have worked throughout have had the money in mouth etc issues. It is, however as a pp pointed out, a situation your manager needs to deal with.

Apart from having to deal with the great unwashed public, I do hope your return to work hasn't been quite as bad as you feared.

Caplin · 06/08/2020 00:09

YANBU

I work for a retailer. In Scotland they are not required to ‘enforce’, but in England by law they have to challenge and enforce. So if they don’t do this, like challenge 25, they are liable.

Frankly it is nuts, Scotland’s approach is better. Some people can’t wear them, and if they can’t then everyone should assume there is a reason.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 06/08/2020 00:11

@TheGreatWave

Going through a metal detector is totally different, the consequences of something being missed is much higher than the person without a mask being in a supermarket.

Person A could have a bomb. Person B probably doesn't have covid, isn't in close contact with others for a significant length of time and hopefully isn't sneezing, coughing and singing in the middle aisles.

Maybe you should sit in a supermarket for 8 hours and see what goes on - coughing, sneezing, shouting, singing, even several occasions of people shitting on the floor and I mean adults. Given that pubs have closed where 2 staff infected many customers an infected customer coughing over a checkout assistant or handing them money they've held in their mouth might well lead to an outbreak.

The point is, if it's ok for someone with a certain condition to have to carry documentation to show as necessary (it also sets some security gates off in shops too so I carry it everywhere just in case) then why is it so terrible for people to say "I'm exempt" to a shop assistant or to carry an"I'm exempt" card?

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