Junior colleague being paid the same as me

[SeaWitchly]

I work in a caring profession. Today my junior colleague let slip how much she earns and I realised she is on the exact same salary as me. I am really annoyed about this. Junior colleague and I have both been in post 2 years. I came in to the role with 10 years experience of doing the role elsewhere. Junior colleague had never worked in the role before and required a lot of support and mentoring from me to get to a competent level. However she is not at a senior level which was confirmed by my manager recently when I suggested we job share the senior role (as it is a lot of work for one person on a part/time contract). Basically as I get all the additional problem solving and planning required with little extra admin time but the exact same client load as junior colleague (we both work 3 days per week). Which means I often find myself working (unpaid) overtime to keep up. At the moment I feel so angry about this I want to quit (and yes I know I am lucky to have a job in the current climate). I don’t think I can ask for a pay rise as I will be told there is no money for this in their budget. AIBU?

@vikingwife

Apologies illegal not the correct term - I mean contractually not allowed to discuss pay. This has been on every corporate/professional contract I have had...you don’t discuss pay worth colleagues - and if you do in secret, then you certainly don’t tell your boss “so & so gets paid X so why can’t I!”

That could get you in trouble in companies have worked for! It’s a breach of contract.

..... Every company I've worked for had published pay scales, so everyone knew the rate for the grade and noone had to keep their grade secret

Transparency is much fairer for the employee:
secrecy gives more power to senior people to play favourites, or give lower pay to those they know can't move elsewhere for reasons of schools etc - usually disadvanages women

Thank you so much for all your input. You have given me much food for thought. I have been in this role for two years and have never had an appraisal. I had an original manager when I started the job who was nigh on impossible to get hold of at the best of times. Then she left and my colleague (also female by the way) and I were without a manager for 6 months. The latest manager has been in post for a year now but culture of the company was that no-one had appraisals. However previous MD has resigned and we have had a new MD arrive (6 weeks in) who is asking for staff feedback. I think I will ask for implementation of regular appraisal. I am also going to ask for a meeting with my manager to ask for an appraisal like discussion (in the current absence of appraisals company wide ) and pay review.

What exactly is the problem with transparency of pay? Why all the issues with personal negotiation?

If two people are doing the same job to the same quality then they need to be on the same pay, because that’s fair. If there are issues over performance, fix them another way.

It’s just a way to obfuscate and legitimise the unfairness of the pay system.

It is quite difficult to assess pay in this role as most others working in this particular field do so on a contracted basis (and on a higher rate of hourly pay). I assumed that I was on a higher rate of pay to my colleague as I am given extra responsibility that she isn’t. However you may be right in that she has been better at negotiating than I am. I need to remedy this. If anyone has any tips for negotiating salary in a private healthcare role (notoriously stingy sector with no transparent pay scales) please let me know

You have to know you’re being underpaid before you can act on it.

I really don't agree with this. You find your value in the job market at the point where supply of your labour matches the demand for your labour: someone offers you a job at a rate you accept.

any tips

Get another, better role and be prepared to move

Thank you Finally. I think you are right.

The best way to get more money is to move to a new company. However if you're after a promotion its often, but not always, easier to stay where you are.

Also, @SerenDippitty of course we can see salary values even when the payroll is processed by an external provider. It still has to go through the finance ledger every month.

I know someone this happened to. She applied for a vacancy within the organisation at the level of the junior.

Boss asked her why, and she responded that she knew the going rate and how much less was required, and that to stay she would need an increased wage of £xxxxx. Worked out well for all concerned.

But take this as a warning, especially if you are female. You do not bargain hard enough.

I spent 5 years setting up a service which I ran on me and two assistants in the NHS. When I left, a man took my post, and told my boss no-one could be expected to provide what we had been providing on such low staffing. So he got upgraded, given 2 qualified staff, and still wasn't covering all I did!

That was the NHS, but I never forgot my value after that. I now bargain hard and can work part-time (tho my needs are few). I work for a charity, otherwise I'd want more.

Women make these mistakes all the time. This really is the patriarchy in action.

OP, listen to this podcast, cos this lassie totally gets it, and shows you how to get what you deserve.
unfuckyourbrain.com/your-financial-value-worth/

AKissAndASmile

No female too, they say she had previous experience at same level outside of NHS (where we work) though no more than I did. But that has not been apparent in her performance so far and to work alongside someone and help them knowing they are getting thousands more a year than you are is demoralising and quite frankly pissing me off. Simply a joke.

She must have negotiated well on starting. You need to ask for a pay rise.

I have realised I am doing the senior role on a very junior rate of pay. I feel gutted to be honest. All that extra responsibility landed on my lap and initiatives I made that developed the service. I have gone the extra mile and given as much of myself as I possibly can. Two years now and I realise I am done. I don’t think there is any coming back from this. Maybe I am taking it too personally but I feel I have been taken for a ride. I have given my employers my ideas, my experience, my knowledge and my skills in good faith all whilst developing a colleague who needed a great deal of support to get her to a competent level. I have this freely believing there was a mutual respect between myself and my employer. But my trust has been broken and I need to plan my exit strategy. Thank you to all for your advice and thoughts. It has given me much to think about and reflect upon.

I think you’re massively overreacting and taking this so personally. It’s business, and your last post is just all emotion.

I’ve RTFT so apologies if I missed it but I haven’t seen anywhere that you’ve actually asked for extra pay to reflect your extra work. It doesn’t sound like you’ve negotiated your salary at all.

And if that’s the case, what are you going on about “breaking trust” and “no mutual respect” and “being taken for a ride” for?

You are the one that needs to instigate this and should have done when you took on the extra work. Why would they just come out and offer you more money when you haven’t even said anything?

But you have been working on that rate of pay, with those responsibilities you have taken on without pushing for a pay rise to reflect it quite happily by the sound of it until realising what someone else's pay was.

It may seem ‘just business’ to corporations. But when you are in a caring profession you often give more of yourself than the hours and pay reflect. It is not unusual to work through breaks and after your official finish time for example as you are often working with vulnerable people in distress or difficulty. I understand that I seem full of emotion and I agree. My employer has been tricky to work for and I guess I am not happy really overall. I will discuss my pay package with them as I feel it is important for my self respect and also my successor. But I don’t feel the same about my employer/manager now. My trust has been broken and I feel taken advantage of. All those times I have taken on extra work as my colleague was too junior to handle it buy she was actually on the same pay level as me all the while... I understand that there are some of you reading this in different professions who think I am overreacting but do others in caring professions (ie NHS style professions working in private healthcare) get what I am saying?

You don’t feel the same about them because they didn’t give you something you never asked for?

What trust has been broken?

You’ve not been taken advantage of because you were fine until you found out your juniors salary. And a pay rise for you wouldn’t automatically go to any successor of yours if they are offered, don’t negotiate, and take a lower pay rate. Pay is individual.

Update: I have managed to find a document from a different but very similar role which reflects that I am indeed on the bottom rung of the pay scale. Think same role but in different region. Does anyone have any advice re presenting this to management? Anything I should be wary of saying or doing?

I've got nearly 11 years experience in my job. A colleague who has been there 11 months gets the same minimum wage as me. It's shit but there's nothing I can do except do my job well.

I possibly wouldn't point out the fact you're on the same salary, but I definitely wouldn't be doing the extra workload for free in my own time.

Could you phrase it that the workload is excessive and if they want you to continue to carry out the senior duties they are going to have to pay for your time (if you don't value your time, they won't)?

If they don't want to pay for the hours, then you don't do the work

Also double check that you're not dropping below NMW with your extra hours for no pay

Hearts I feel taken advantage of because I have been repeatedly informed by management that junior colleague is not up to the task and cannot be asked to take on any of the more critical, experience related tasks that I do (and such take me away from the front line hence me sometimes falling behind in my day to day work hence unpaid overtime). So I guess I assumed my skills and experience the organisation are relying on were being acknowledged by way of higher pay scale than junior. My mistake and one I won’t make again. I have learnt a lot from this experience and I guess that is of value. But I still feel I have been taken advantage of and I get that others in different roles with perhaps more understanding of what they are worth don’t get.

Update: I have arranged a meeting next week with both my line manager and new MD to discuss my salary.
Thank you to you all for your advice and I agree that I need to speak up and address the issue. I am still cross that I was put in this position but that was by previous management and our new MD has been very clear that he wants to build a new culture of trust and transparency within the organisation. So I am lucky that he has come on board. Now it is up to me to make my case. If anyone has any advice regarding what I should say and how please let me know but otherwise again thank you all.

I had this. Different sector. Financial services London. Found out the bloke I was training who was much less experienced was on more than me.

Raised it, told I was on dodgy ground as not supposed to know each others salaries, mention it again could get sacked. This is years ago.

I left and got a much better paid job.

This is gonna happen a lot more now that covid has screwed the job market and there will be very experienced people applying for roles and being paid a fraction of what they are worth. Employers will be able to name their price and may well drop the asking salary to below that of a junior employee who joined in more bountiful times.

@SeaWitchly

Update: I have arranged a meeting next week with both my line manager and new MD to discuss my salary. Thank you to you all for your advice and I agree that I need to speak up and address the issue. I am still cross that I was put in this position but that was by previous management and our new MD has been very clear that he wants to build a new culture of trust and transparency within the organisation. So I am lucky that he has come on board. Now it is up to me to make my case. If anyone has any advice regarding what I should say and how please let me know but otherwise again thank you all.

I'd find some ads for roles at your level on more money and bring those along.