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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to think that companies use covid as an excuse to lay off staff?

37 replies

hotpotlover · 05/08/2020 11:49

Just that really.

My company announced that they plan to make 27 people redundant. The consultation is going on at the moment, people will be notified around August 21st if their job is at risk.

I started maternity leave on July 29th and I know for sure that I will be one of those 27.

I know it's quite convenient for my company to get rid of me under the guise of covid 19, but I know deep inside that the real reason is my pregnancy.

The company said people could come forward and take voluntary redundancy by July 30th. However, they offer no financial incentive for voluntary redundancy, they won't pay extra.

My company has been hit by Covid 19, but we've had worse figures during the last financial crash where people were just put on short work and not made redundant.

I think a lot of companies use Covid as an excuse to make people redundant. Some companies really struggle and have to take these steps, but certainly not all of them.

I also feel like some companies that didn't really need it took advantage of the furlough scheme and will make people redundant very soon as they learned how they can run their operations much leaner.

OP posts:

Lifeisabeach09 · 05/08/2020 12:00

Completely agree with you. I believe some companies are using Covid as an excuse to make redundancies and up the workload of the staff they keep on. Companies with good profits are abusing the furlough scheme also.
BA being a prime example of the former.

Girlswithflowers · 05/08/2020 12:03

A lot of companies were in trouble, struggling to service their debts before Covid.

notheragain4 · 05/08/2020 12:08

Yes Covid has definitely been able to act as a cover up in some circumstances. A charity I used to work for was massively struggling, about to get spun back into the council, was talking about redundancies prior to to Covid. Since Covid has happened they have folded and being spun back into the council, of course Covid did have a huge impact on it, but now all the senior managers are citing Covid as the reason it wasn't sustainable and will go down in history as a Covid victim, when in reality it would have almost certainly folded this financial year anyway. So the senior managers will go on to bigger and brighter jobs no doubt, and there will be no accountability for the hideous management that ran it into the ground.

LittleOwl153 · 05/08/2020 12:25

@hotpotlover I agree with you went you say covid is being used as an excuse, but it is also the last straw for many.

Your own particular situation however you need to ensure you know the details. As you are in maternity leave you have priority over jobs if there are jobs remaining, so if you are a team of 10 doing the same role and they reduce to 5 you have a legal priority over the remaining 5 jobs. Gets tricker if the company is small and job roles individual but with 27 redundancies it sounds as though you have some chance. Covid doesn't reduce mater ity rights.

TeenPlusTwenties · 05/08/2020 12:32

I think there will be many companies who were just about managing for whom Covid will have forced action. e.g. WHSmiths which no longer seems to have a core brand / unique selling point.

Original poster

hotpotlover · 05/08/2020 12:35

@LittleOwl153:

The person who does the same job as me is a woman who's been with the company for 27 years. I've only been there for 3 years and a bit. She's much more experienced than me.

Are you saying I've got legal priority to her job?

OP posts:

daisypond · 05/08/2020 12:39

[quote LittleOwl153]@hotpotlover I agree with you went you say covid is being used as an excuse, but it is also the last straw for many.

Badbadbunny · 05/08/2020 12:39

Why would a company need an excuse for redundancies? If they want to make redundancies, as long as they follow the procedures, (i.e. notice/consultation periods if necessary, not discriminatory etc). They don't need to "prove" that they can't afford you, don't need staff etc. It's all about fairness as to who is made redundant not whether they need to make redundancies. They don't need an excuse. Surely, if they want to get rid of a dozen staff anyway unrelated to covid, they'd have done it a year ago, which they could if they follow the rules.

Bookriddle · 05/08/2020 12:42

I believe this, i was made redundant in july, i have an ongoing medical problem that means i have to attend hospital every couple of weeks, doesnt affect my ability to work, but means i was taking holiday to attend appointments, and would have the odd day off sick here and there! I believe they got rod of me because of the hassle i caused(not much)
They also got rid of 1 other person, he had the worse sick record of anyone!

Business hasnt really slowed down because of covid either

We was both furloughed for 2 months

catgirl1976 · 05/08/2020 12:49

I agree with Badbadbunny. Companies don't need an excuse to make redundancies they just need to show there is a reduced need for the work etc and go through consultation if there are more than 20 roles at risk. Nor do senior manager's careers tend to suffer if previous companies have gone bust or been subject to redundancies so they don't need to "hide" behind COVID it's just normal business. Where I work makes redundancies every year as the type of skills required changes.

COVID will have been the last straw for some but they didn't need it to start making redundancies.

Sorry to hear about your situation, as a PP said you DO get priority on suitable alternative employment. Check ACAS for details.

catgirl1976 · 05/08/2020 12:50

This guide is useful and confirms your right to be offered any suitable remaining roles archive.acas.org.uk/media/3447/Managing-redundancy-for-pregnant-employees-or-those-on-maternity-leave/pdf/Managing-redundancy-for-pregnant-employees-or-those-on-maternity-leave.pdf

catgirl1976 · 05/08/2020 12:50

From the ACAS guide:

Is there a suitable alternative vacancy?

Sometimes you might have alternative jobs that you can offer to
redundant employees. If you do, an employee on maternity leave who
has been selected for redundancy must be offered a suitable vacancy
before any other employee. If you don’t do this, her dismissal may be
automatically unfair. If you do offer a suitable alternative and the
employee unreasonably turns it down, she loses her right to a redundancy
payment.

Lifeisabeach09 · 05/08/2020 12:51

Why would a company need an excuse for redundancies?

Perception amongst employees and customers. Covid goes down easier as an excuse than, say, poor management. Also, it's easier to swallow for employees.

BA is making redundancies then hiring same (or new) staff on cheaper contracts. They've been trying, for years, to get longterm staff off the better-paid contracts.

FizzyPink · 05/08/2020 12:56

Oh for sure there’s a lot of this going on. Someone I know who runs a very successful company posted on LinkedIn that he was using the current situation as an opportunity to restructure and make some roles redundant while hiring other people. Horrible way to treat employees making them redundant when it’s not vitally necessary in the current jobs market

notheragain4 · 05/08/2020 12:56

@Badbadbunny just as a pp says, it saves face. People will be sympathetic to the global pandemic and just get it, rather than having to put their hands up say "we failed" which certainly is the case in the organisation I mention in my previous post, appalling management, terribly led, awful business decisions. Covid is an easy get out of jail card for them and saves the temporary consultant CEO sent in to save the company a lot of face.

CopperBeeches · 05/08/2020 12:59

Companies don't lay off staff if they need them. Companies recruit staff if they have work for them and lay off staff if they don't. Simple. (A bald man is not going to pay a hairdresser every week but if he suddenly discovers an interest in hats he will find a good hatmaker)

notheragain4 · 05/08/2020 13:06

@CopperBeeches that's a too simplistic view that doesn't hold anyone to account, it doesn't question what causes not needing that staff any more? A lot of that will be poor business decisions as well as market conditions, Covid will have acted as a catalyst in a lot of situations, but many companies were on the brink already. People will be much more sympathetic to them rather than say HMV or Toys R Us who evidently lacked the ability to diversify in a changing market. So organisations will absolutely be utilising and exaggerating the Covid card.

catgirl1976 · 05/08/2020 13:10

Business managers don't tend to be "held to account" when there are redundancies. Its part of normal business planning. If there are large scale redundancies in huge organisations is might affect the share price but it may not depending on the rationale.

ivfdreaming · 05/08/2020 13:10

Yes companies are using this as a time to "trim the fat" and garner sympathy because of course Covid must be to blame.

But companies don't make people redundant that they actually need - likely the company has become bloated and people are becoming left efficient

You don't have legal priority over your colleague's job - you should get priority if there are alternative jobs being offered to people but they may be different roles or in different locations but are you taking a year of maternity leave? It might not be reasonable to expect a company to hold a position that long when they have 26 other people being made redundant

GrumpyHoonMain · 05/08/2020 13:11

HSBC is definitely using Covid as an excuse. They have spent decades mismanaging their operations by investing in people (usually in India) instead of automation / technology and are now paying the price.

RumAndRaisinIceCream · 05/08/2020 13:12

I hate to say it but a lot of companies will use it to get rid of people they otherwise might have had trouble getting rid of (so people who go off sick regularly, people they've been having difficulties with etc.). Sure they could use redundancy any other time but it's more likely to be accepted as an excuse now than at any other time so the spotlight won't be as much on them.

KrisAkabusi · 05/08/2020 13:13

That doesn't say she must be offered a role, it says she must be offered a position if there's a vacancy. Those are two very different things.

RumAndRaisinIceCream · 05/08/2020 13:13

hsbc's profit dropped 96% though so they won't find it hard to point to an excuse!

catgirl1976 · 05/08/2020 13:14

You don't have legal priority over your colleague's job - you should get priority if there are alternative jobs being offered to people but they may be different roles or in different locations

If you are offered a role in a different location and that would impact your childcare you can decline it and retain your redundancy payment

are you taking a year of maternity leave? It might not be reasonable to expect a company to hold a position that long when they have 26 other people being made redundant

It would be discrimination if they did not offer you suitable alternative employment due to your mat leave

catgirl1976 · 05/08/2020 13:15

@KrisAkabusi - yes as I said she has priority for any suitable alternative employment

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