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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU To feel like I'm losing my sister to conspiracy theories?

309 replies

Thestreets · 04/08/2020 13:24

My sister is a very intelligent, funny, interesting woman but recently , probably since lockdown she has been spending more and more time online and reading into conspiracy theories about the Hollywood elite and politicians and child sacrifices and all kinds of ludicrous claims.

This has utterly consumed her, you cannot have a conversation with the her that she does not turn to her trying to show some you tube video as "evidence". I'm so worried but do not know what to do as everything I say is met with "well that's what they want you to think".

OP posts:
BlingLoving · 06/08/2020 16:43

Personally, and obviously this is from a relatively small sample size, my experience is that people who get sucked into this kind of thing are people who dont read much normally, particularly fiction. They have no experience in reading and absorbing different viewpoints, no understanding of how stories can be manipulated to show different agendas etc. Fiction often provides useful insights into other peoples lives and experiences and while these are all biased in some way, the more you read the more your understanding expands.

I cant buy into theories of large groups controlling other groups because I have read and seen enough of human nature to know that kind of complicity just isn't practical. Except in the most extreme of cults there are still differences of opinion and approach. Hell, most of us have experienced this in our own (small) lives - the PTA all agree raising money to help the school is important but the fighting and disagreement about how to do this is usually 50% of the process. Ans yet we are supposed to believe that a group of potential totally 100s of people are all entirely on the same page? Hahahahahahahaha.

Buccanarab · 06/08/2020 17:16

*Please can someone share a conspiracy theory that has been proven right.

I can’t think of one in the thousands of years that they’ve been around, but surely when something is true it would be easy to prove so therefore there should be loads of conspiracy theories which have turned out to be true*

There's been a few but most aren't big one's. Things like tobacco companies supressing research between smoking and cancer in the 50s and 60s have been proven true over the years but the evidence was always there if you wanted look.
The two biggest I can think of are the MKUltra programme and the Tuskegee syphilis experiments. Both involved the US carrying out illegal experiments on humans without their consent but they were on a relatively small scale and I'm not sure whether there was wide scale public interest/theories about them at the time. It's probably stuff like that that leads to people believing in the more out there conspiracy theories.

Chickenkatsu · 06/08/2020 17:39

I heard that most people in the past didn't believe in gorillas and giant pandas, they thought they were mythical, I'm not sure if that's true or not. I think that the first time scientists saw a duck billed platypus they thought it was made up.

The idea that radioactive elements like uranium produced some magical radiation that could pass through solid objects and was slowly killing people wasn't widely believed at first.

TheHoneyBadger · 06/08/2020 20:19

I enjoy a the odd conspiracy wormholes but make myself look at the ones from a different political or religious etc leaning too. I remember forcing myself to watch right wing ones to counterbalance Grin

As others say they’ll contain kernels of truth and they are also good for understanding people’s mindsets and values and how those are manipulated.

Trump has totally encouraged conspiracy theories with deliberate repeated references to fake news and is totally exploiting the fears and concerns revealed in conspiracy theory channels and sites.

I’m a teacher and find it pretty terrifying on mumsnet to realise there are parents who don’t believe covid is real, refuse to wear masks and aren’t taking any precautions. Their kids will be in our classrooms and be being sent in with symptoms because their parents don’t believe it’s real or it’s no big deal.

It’s all gotten a bit dangerous for those of us who’ll be being put at risk by those particular theories.

TheHoneyBadger · 06/08/2020 20:24

Off to put Tom Hanks into a YouTube search Grin

Sunrise234 · 06/08/2020 20:31

It’s all gotten a bit dangerous for those of us who’ll be being put at risk by those particular theories.

I agree.
Having a childlike naivety and believing things like the government are hiding mermaids and unicorns from us I can deal with.
But when it comes to not believing in COVID or vaccinations it becomes very worrying.

TomPinch · 07/08/2020 01:30

There's an article on the Guardian website on this subject - the comments are worth reading too. It concerns Americans, but the phenomenon is wider: Meet the white, middle-class Pinterest moms who believe Plandemic

@MaybeDoctor

Since the late 1960s there has been an increasing movement in Christianity that rejects the traditionally-organised church (ie, with a bishop or moderator responsible for lots of parishes and clergy) in favour of independent 'house' churches. It's a reaction to the decline of Christianity by jettisoning the baggage that those big churches have (I mean CofE, CofS Catholic etc). They're now at the point where they are becoming more influential in Christian circles than those older churches.

The danger in them is that they don't have proper oversight, and the people who run them don't have nearly as much training as the traditional CofE vicar has. Until really very recently it normal for anyone who ran a church to have at least some understanding, for example, of New Testament Greek and the philosophical ideas that were going around at the time (there's a lot of Plato in St Paul for example - trad Christianity borrows hugely from Greek culture). In house churches this is not generally the case, leastways around me, and the result is that the contents of the Bible get taught in a very simplistic sort of way. The classic mistake these churches make is forgetting that the Bible was written in different languages in different times, and it isn't simply a matter of translating it like an Asterix comic. The other classic mistake they make is denying that what is in the Bible was a matter of debate for hundreds of years, and what went in and what stayed out was based on what the Church had decided to believe - and not the other way round. They are actually commiting a simple historical illiteracy.

Concerning the Bible Society, I remember that in my youth they were an entirely mainstream organisation and for them to make a presentation in a school would have been entirely uncontroversial. My mother gave me a Bible published by the Bible Society, as I recall. She is an old-fashioned, sensible, mild-mannered academic type of the sort that one still finds around churches - but now they are all very elderly.

I do not know what they are like now. But I have to say that it is quite normal for ethical views of all sorts to be advocated in schools. I think that's quite proper, within appropriate limits, and as long as it is appropriately taught by knowledgeable people. I don't see that ethical views that involve belief in a divine being should be excluded from this - particularly the case of Christianity, which was the dominant belief system in the UK for one and a half thousand years until only just a few years ago.

In my kids' schools, Christianity isn't given an airing at all, but plenty of other views and beliefs are: they boil down to a querulous, zealous and disjointed pushing of the rights of various identified minority groups and it all looks very shallow to me.

Regarding conspiracy theories generally: I believe that across the West knowlege and ability in the humanities has been in decline for at least two decades. When I read something written 20 or 30 years ago I'm struck by more seriously it is written and argued, and how less likely it is to try and be entertaining. I think a lot of people no longer know how to be serious and who to treat something in a serious way - and that is why they do not recognise when an argument or belief oer a person is not serious and needs to be treated as a joke. I don't think, for example, that someone like Boris Johnson would have become prime minister 20 or 30 years ago. This has happened at the same time as decline in traditional church attendance and I do wonder if that means a moderating influence on people has been lost. However, I think it has a lot more to do with the rise of the Internet and the idea that one can just Google everything. Even my kids' schools teach in this way - they go light on the content because the Internet has the answer, and I understand that is a worldwide teaching trend.

It's very, very depressing. I think that Trump will lose in November but this nonsense won't go away any time soon.

Userzzz · 07/08/2020 01:40

According to you and 95% of mumsnet if you question anything you're told by the media you must be a conspiracy theorist or have a mental illness. Hilarious.
Have you ever questioned anything or used your reason to independently form an opinion outside of what you are told?

Shinyletsbebadguys · 07/08/2020 03:53

@Userzzz

According to you and 95% of mumsnet if you question anything you're told by the media you must be a conspiracy theorist or have a mental illness. Hilarious. Have you ever questioned anything or used your reason to independently form an opinion outside of what you are told?
Have you actually read this thread ? At all? With the best will in the world you have posted an uninformed clunky attempt at shaming with no evidence and a blatant disregard for any comments made on here. You simply used this as a forum to put others down in an intangible referenced dig presumably in order to cackle sheeple internally?

You have genuinely just defined which type of conspiracy theorist makes the whole group appear laughable.

Several comments (including mine) have clarified that people don't believe everything they read and critically analyse it. That's not as falling for whatever pseudo science rubbish is reduced into bite sized soundbites for conspiracy theorists. A post up thread claiming to have evidence turned out to be several badly referenced online articles with only one (tenuous) reference to actual empirical evidence.

Userzzz · 07/08/2020 04:13

@Shinyletsbebadguys
Pseudo science? that's masks for you, honey!

anon2334 · 07/08/2020 08:10

Userzzz

According to you and 95% of mumsnet if you question anything you're told by the media you must be a conspiracy theorist or have a mental illness. Hilarious.
Have you ever questioned anything or used your reason to independently form an opinion outside of what you are told?

I know right ! Had a look through with a friend and it’s hilarious. We can only say it’s on mumsnet that this mentality exists as most people have differing views.. They bang on about it yet ther own beliefs sometimes have no proof except their TV box told them something and the week after the TV box then told something else that’s contradicted what was told last week but that’s ok.

Apparently Anna Brees Is unwell because as an ex BBC and ITV reporter is doing her own independent media that she now calls New news. Some people be careful what they say as that’s just dangerous to call someone unwell just because they DO NOT DHARE YOUR VIEW! Plus she has done some great work!

I mean The BBC aren’t mentally unwell for covering up for a sick twat like Saville but apparently on mumsnet Anna Brees is unwell because she has questioned her own experience of the mainstream media And a few of her colleagues and many more mainstream journalists are doing the same.

Also Someone said call SS on her sister? where have we heard that before? I mean her child is probably looked after and can you imagine how many children with non conspiracy families must be abused , taking drugs, neglect, sexual and physical abuse and on mumsnet someone said call SS yes please do unless the child has serious safeguarding issues I’m sure SS will be thankful when next house there is a child seriously being abused..

Oh and yes I do agree somethings are a little out there just like religion which is taught in school but as Elon Musk said ‘what is real and what is fake? It’s a world of our perceptions and many cultures have different beliefs.

As for what’s happening in America, it’s great! Finally mainstream media asked Bill Gates why he wants to vaccinate 6 billion people with a vaccine that hasn’t been properly finished. Doctors saying why are we not allowed on coronavirus expert panel yet Greta Thumberg, Bill Gates , Sean penn. This has been weird year! I expect loads more to come out yet, especially what happened in care homes. Sad times really

CrunchyCarrot · 07/08/2020 08:17

Have you ever questioned anything or used your reason to independently form an opinion outside of what you are told?

Absolutely have. Have had to do so re medical stuff, have spent most of the last 4 years researching academic articles to try to find a way through what the medical profession have told me and others like me - if you like, their MSM of belief. I no longer go along with it and have had to find my own way.

Maybe I get that stubbornness from having been in an abusive relationship in the past, and being told how worthless I was, until I believed it. I'm not the only one who has been through that kind of fire. Plus many of us are highly educated and have learned how to look at information to determine if it's factual, not just take it at face value. Even so, you don't need to be highly educated to use your common sense and bullshit meter.

Thestreets · 07/08/2020 08:33

@anon2334 have you even read the thread?? The call to SS suggested by another user was in response to the fact that dsis spends all her time smoking weed and obsessing over article after article as evidence of her theories. Her beliefs are not what I am concerned about. We have often had very different views about things. The problem is the beliefs are taking over her every day life consuming every aspect of her life and affecting work, relationships and her parenting.

OP posts:
anon2334 · 07/08/2020 09:38

Thestreets

@anon2334 have you even read the thread?? The call to SS suggested by another user was in response to the fact that dsis spends all her time smoking weed and obsessing over article after article as evidence of her theories. Her beliefs are not what I am concerned about. We have often had very different views about things. The problem is the beliefs are taking over her every day life consuming every aspect of her life and affecting work, relationships and her parenting.
If that’s the case then a doctor would probably be suitable unless there are safeguarding issues and the child is being neglected or abused then SS can only do so much and maybe offer support. People are allowed different parenting styles as long as the child is looked after well and loved.. however I guess only you. No one knows except OP how bad it really is

. I know it’s hard for everyone, there are people in their 1000’s suffering including children now and it’s not conspiracies, it’s the contact fear mongering, changes and just how appalling this government has handled things things.
I do hope she gets help if you think it’s that bad then only you know..

The thing is there will be people suffering and will have affected their parenting and it’s not conspiracies it may anxiety, health anxiety through the roof now, changes in jobs, lockdown etc

Komacho · 07/08/2020 13:54

[quote Userzzz]@Shinyletsbebadguys
Pseudo science? that's masks for you, honey![/quote]
Fuck off back to 8chan, honey!

SeaEagleFeather · 07/08/2020 21:13

I've unfortunately come across a very few of the 8chan individuals talking about the conspiracy theories they throw out there. I wish I hadn't.

They laugh their sick heads off at the people they manage to take in, and they laugh even more when their theories spread. There's 0 conscience. I honestly think they are barely human, some of them; they -love- duping people, it makes them feel big.

It's difficult to have much sympathy for people who are reasonably well educated who still fall for this shit because it is damaging, but when you see how the 8chan scum speak about the people they take in, it's awful. They are highly intelligent, socially extremely challenged, and ... sick.

I do also think that occasionally there really are conspiracies. The North Wales children's homes scandal was based in truth, and it seems accepted that Cyril Smith was a protected paedophile. But those are the exceptions, not the rule.

Sunrise234 · 07/08/2020 22:32

What exactly is 8chan?
I thought it was a forum for terrorists like ISIS and extremists. So why hasn’t it been shut down?

BigChocFrenzy · 07/08/2020 23:00

"Finally mainstream media asked Bill Gates why he wants to vaccinate 6 billion people with a vaccine that hasn’t been properly finished."

Another person obsessed with BIll Gates
He seems to be the current conspiracy nuts' bogeyman after Soros became too old to be scary

Boris Johnson wants to vaccinate everyone in the UK

Macron wants to vaccinate everyone in France

Merkel in Germany

Trump in the USA

wtf the fixation on Gates / Rothschild / Clinton / any hate figure when
it is governments around the world - - left / right / centre / any party - who are so keen to vaccinate ?

Komacho · 07/08/2020 23:06

@Sunrise234

What exactly is 8chan? I thought it was a forum for terrorists like ISIS and extremists. So why hasn’t it been shut down?
www.bellingcat.com/news/2019/11/04/the-state-of-california-could-have-stopped-8chan-it-didnt/
BigChocFrenzy · 07/08/2020 23:14

My NDN - presumably a functioning adult since he owns & runs several businesses - is one of those
who think a COVID vaccination will just be a cover to inject microchips to monitor & control everyone Hmm

I can understand - even though I disagree - someone who won't have a vaccination until it's been running a few years
or won't vaccinate their kids when it's more to protect the middle aged & elderly

but this microchip conspiracy is batshit

In Germany, where I live, vehement anti-vaxxers seem a larger minority than in most countries

The Nazis claimed that vaccinations were a conspirac by Jews to poison the German people
Decades of education has made anti-semitism unacceptable in public - at least until the AfD came along
However that paranoia about vaccinations being a dangerous conspiracy has long outlasted the old Nazis
Not just the COVID vaccination, but there is also historic opposition to MMR and all others

StarUtopia · 07/08/2020 23:24

Hmm. You see. I've read through quite a few pages of responses and want to bang all your heads!!

Wake up - seriously! I'm by no means some crazy mentally ill conspiracy theorist, but pizza gate is real, Q is something, there is a huge elite paedophile ring and christ, you really REALLY don't want to know about the Clintons.

Anyway. Soon we won't have to 'convince' you. It will just be a case of trying not to say, I told you so.

Watch 'Out of the Shadows' and come back to me.

bibbitybobbitycats · 07/08/2020 23:50

@StarUtopia could you explain a little more about these theories, provide some links from reputable sources? For a start, where is the evidence that pizzagate is real?

I predict you may tell me to do my own research...

Michaelschofield · 08/08/2020 00:27

The Clinton Foundation is the stuff of nightmares.

Notthefutureyet · 08/08/2020 04:41

Unfortunately OP it's a near certainty you won't convince her she's wrong about any of it, or talk her round from her beliefs, when "everyone's" in on the conspiracy she's able to dismiss anything you say against it. You won't get anywhere trying to challenge her when she's in so deep, all that will happen is you'll drive her away and will be in even less of a position to help.

I came to an agreement with a relative that we simply wouldn't speak about it at all, conversation was a harder at first because we'd been having non stop debates about it every time we met up, but we eventually moved on to other subjects.

Tell her you respect her beliefs but they aren't yours and that you just don't want to talk about the subject with her anymore. Hopefully she's still got something else to talk about! If you can get that out of the way you might be able to focus on ways of getting her to cut down on the weed, if that's actually fueling the problem.

Even if you can't change her habits, she may find some relief in your conversations about other things, and start to come around that way. It will at least mean you can stay close to her either way.

Notthefutureyet · 08/08/2020 04:44

You can always try to get her to think critically about it, like ask her how she decides what evidence is true and what isn't, but that's probably barking up the wrong tree, because she already "knows" what's true and what isn't.

You're not in the same secret knowledge club that she is, so you wouldn't get it.