8 (nearly 9) year old behaviour

[Mumoftwo1and6]

First post in a long while - not sure if it’s in the right place.
I’m worried about my 8 (nearly 9) year old boy - he is just so impulsive.
He is a really bright boy but has a very silly personality. His teachers have spoken to me at every parents’ evening since nursery about his silly behaviour and decision making. A recent example at school would be that every time he goes to the toilets, he turns the lights out so all the kids scream and get scared. He was given a consequence at school but that didn’t stop him doing it again. His behaviour at school is never major - he never needs to go to the head or anything. He is never rude or never hurts the other kids. He is also very popular at school and is really bright, exceeding the year group expectations.

Anyway, at home, he just doesn’t think. An example would be yesterday when our family arrived for a bbq, he chatted to them for 30 secs and then threw the dogs really hard toy over the back garden wall and it hit our neighbours car. It could have really hurt someone. At the same bbq, he finished eating so the same second he finished, walked over to the table the adults were at and just screamed really loudly in our ears. It’s just bizarre.
An example from today would be when my mam arrived with a set of walkie talkies for him and his sister. We took them over the park to see the range on them and all was well. Next thing, with no warning, he threw the walkie talkie about 10 feet in the air and it smashed. This type of behaviour is regular. I literally have hundreds of these examples. Last week his dad strapped him in the car as his seat belt was twisted, my son was saying ‘let me do it’ his dad said ‘I’ll do it, it’s twisted’ so my son spat in his face.
He always gets consequences - time outs, technology removed, sent to bedroom etc. Makes no difference.
The problem is that he is so upset afterwards. Tonight, when talking about his behaviour today, he said man you need to be harsher with me to make me a nicer person. It broke my heart and we both cried. He said he hates how naughty he is. He had lost the use of his I pad for throwing the walkie talkie which meant that he couldn’t FaceTime his friends on a group they had planned for that day. I think that’s harsh enough and don’t want to make him feel worse about himself. I have a 4 year old girl and she is just a breeze. If we are going to a friends house, I’ll pack him all sorts of activities to keep him from misbehaving and don’t even think about it for my little girl. When he goes to grandparents houses, I’ve started bribing him with a toy or Robux to make him behave there - it usually works. I’ve tried the marbles in the jar for positives and he can keep it up when something is at stake but it loses its impact after a while.
Anyway, I’ve been watching him closely and it is always when he is not ‘busy’. Today when I built some Lego with him, he was good as gold. His dad took him on a long walk to collect rocks to paint and, again, good as gold. We watched a movie, painted the rocks and planted some flowers and he was fab throughout it all. The second he is left to his own devices, he does something. The movie finished and 30 seconds later he ran and pushed his sister over and she banged her head. The walkie talkie thing was because we had stopped testing them out. It’s like he can’t handle not having a focus. He just walks around looking for someone to irritate. I thought he would have grown out of it but he just isn’t. Any advice greatly appreciated.

You mention that he’s extremely bright. If you read up on high learning potential that often goes hand in hand with asynchronous executive functioning development.

Like others I recognise this from my dc - ultimately my dc likely to get an adhd plus asd traits dx. I wonder about Tourette’s too.

He sounds like a lovely boy and getting a bit of clarity on what could be leading to the impulsivity might help you and him

My Eldest used to be exactly like this, is was really him just seeking attention or playing the joker. He is a lovely mild mannered sensible nearly 20 yrs old. I wouldn't jump straight to Asd. We sometimes forget children are very impulsive and until they are older and their brains are fully formed they just dont have the tools to think about their actions in the same way adults do.. My sister works in child behavior and she would always tell me kids don't think they just do! So we we are asking 'what were you thinking' they cant answer because they weren't thinking.

I wouldn’t rush to label your son with a condition. That can do more harm than good. If he behaves when you’re playing with him or if you’re on days out together, could this be an attention thing? He might miss school and being with his friends. He’s probably bored and feels like he’s in competition with his little sister. He has figured out that he gets attention for “being naughty.”

You have had a lot of advice on your son but I just wanted to mention your daughter. I may be wrong but it sounds like you are so focussed on your son that she can be left out (bags of toys/activites, robux etc) if this is the case she is going to start to realise sooner or later and resent the attention her brother is getting or see that he is getting 'treats' even though his behaviour is not good. If she is a breeze it may be harder to notice but keep an eye on her and make sure they are treated fairly(if you are not already).

The thing is OP, ADHD, like ASD, is a spectrum. Your son won't tick all the boxes, will he? And his behaviour really warrants a referral to paediatrics. He really, really, really needs help with managing this. Personally, I think this is more than attention-seeking behaviour. By assuming that it is, you'll be avoiding giving him coping strategies to help manage his impulsive tendencies. He needs tools to help him. Get him plugged into paediatrics (GP will refer) for an assessment.

Sounds like ADD to me. I have finally come to that conclusion with my DS. He doesn’t fidget but makes noises nearly constantly. Very bright but can’t concentrate. It’s the shame that I think gives it away. My DS is always so sorry afterwards and when asked why he does things he says ‘I don’t know’. I too have had difficult parents evenings since nursery.

I’m right at the beginning of my journey into acceptance that he can’t help it and he’s not just silly or naughty. Having a second helped me to realise how peculiar his behaviour is. Read ‘ADD superparents’ written by two real experts on the subject who have children with ADD and one has the condition himself.

Ignore people telling you to change their diet. Sugar doesn’t make it worse. Parent as your son needs. Don’t shout, don’t shame, try not to get frustrated, just love him. Love him especially when it is hardest. He can’t help it and doesn’t want to be like this.

Ignore people who tell you to discipline more - it doesn’t work, charts don’t work, consequences don’t work. Some people have children who are born singing the same tune as everyone else. They won’t understand what it is like parenting a child who sings off-key.

Your son will achieve great things, it’s just sad that we celebrate and encourage sitting quietly and doing what everybody else does at the same time that everybody else does it. Particularly in school. Don’t let this grind him down.

I’ve heard ADD described as a race car brain with bicycle breaks. Maybe talk to him about that. It can be a gift or a curse depending on how you deal with it. Good luck!

And ignore about the electronic devices a minecraft in particular is very soothing the children with ADD and try chewing gum when they need to concentrate - I’ve found it really helps.

Thank you for all of your responses. I will discuss this with my husband and think about our next steps. I’m not concerned about my DD. She gets treats/rewards and 1:1 time with just me. I did broach the issue of ADHD or similar with his teacher at the last parents’ evening. She feels he is just a bit silly/class clown and that she doesn’t feel it is anything more (she is very experienced and is also the SENCO.)

Teachers, even SENCo are not qualifed to diagnose, so you can't definitely rule something out just because she doesn't feel it is that. Three separate teachers told me that they didn't think my DS had ADHD, and when we decided to go ahead with the assessment anyway, his class teacher actually scored him worse than we did on the questionnaire! She still says she was surprised and wouldn't have thought it of him. Like me he has the inattentive variant which is not associated with the more stereotypical behaviours. Mine was missed until adulthood.

Of course if you don't feel it would be helpful at this point to go ahead with an assessment then that's also fine! I would still recommend the Smart but Scattered book. It's good for children with and without diagnosed conditions.

Hi my son is very similar to yours. Apart from the breaking things. I have no advice but wanted to say your not alone.
My son shows many traits of things and like yours is very caring, and is perfectly behaved on days out etc. Because of this cahms just discharged him because in their words "if it was adhd/asd he wouldn't have control over it." they've told me anxiety.
He is an anxious child but there is much more to it than that. Our friends, family and all school teachers all comment on it and can't believe that he doesn't have a diagnosis.
It makes it difficult for us and difficult for them because without a diagnosis he has to be treated as a naughty child at school and no allowances can be made for anything even though he cannot control how he shouts out in class etc.
Im actually going to meet another parent for a chat later whose son is similar to mine. It really helps to have someone to talk to. Weve had alot of problems with him during the lockdowns and we are all ready for a break from each other so I'm looking forward to them returning to school to give him some structure back.

One of my brightest and most successful friends is adhd. She has to have lots going on at once and is a volunteer, advocate and local councillor and team sports player on top of her very intensive job. She still sometimes struggles with emotional control but is hyper focused in bursts and has to have lots of stimulation as an adult.

She was considered a naughty child and her diagnosis didn’t come until much later - she had a scholarship to a private school and she was so traditionally successful that no one bothered with it.

In other words: nurture alone and effective parenting can be enough. Diagnosis doesn’t mean anything except that some parents use it as an excuse and others use it as a tool for additional insight and support.

However, if he is distressed about his behaviour, then finding out more strategies to deal with it makes a lot of sense. The behaviour st school then exploding at home is also classic of a condition - they hold it in at school and then it all gets released in their safe place.

@Mumoftwo1and6 She feels he is just a bit silly/class clown and that she doesn’t feel it is anything more (she is very experienced and is also the SENCO.)

From what you've said about turning lights off etc, then yes she may well think that. But she can only go on what she sees in school. I would keep a record about what he also does at home, and when out (when not engaged with others). It seems when your DS is stimulated and engaged he copes well, but when that isn't in place, his behaviour changes. It's a behaviour I see quite a bit in school, which may or may not lead to an ADD diagnosis, but can still be managed in a similar way (quietly, firmly, without a fuss, repeating instructions, ensuring child understand what is needed, a "Keep on Task" board listing out what is required that lesson, talking through behaviour choices, constant prompts and reminders on how to behave)

Some behaviour may be attentions seeking, he's a kid after all, so I wouldn't suggest every single action he does is down to impulsivity, but see if there is a pattern there after a month or so.

My son has some similar issues - especially with regards to executive functioning and his processing memory (instructions clear, unambiguous, face to face and one at a time)

He shows ADHD tendencies - but presents as the dreamy child. Drifts away into his own world, easily distracted, not loud etc so not what people tend to think of with boys with ADHD especially.

I guess my point is ADHD covers a very broad spectrum and children can show some of the traits without all - so it’s worth looking at as a way of understanding your son even if he doesn’t completely fall within a standard diagnosis.

I don't really have any advice but I just wanted to say he sounds wonderful and so fun! I do like a 'spirited' child. I can imagine it must cause problems for you though.

I don't think playing guess the diagnosis is helpful, he sounds like his dad was at that age and like he'll grow out of it.