Are bad fathers an inadvertent choice?

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I was puzzling over a recent thread where posters expressed an overwhelming preference for taller male partners meanwhile contrasting this with an ongoing lament over lack of equality in the amount of parenting effort.
Then I saw a talk by omni-ologist Robert Sapolsky where he held up two ape skulls, M/F of the same species where the brains were the same size but the male's had a 'don't fuck with me' jaw and monster gnashers. and he asked 'what can we predict about the male behaviour in the species?'
And the answer was that there was no paternal involvement in child rearing as he had invested all his genes in competing with other males and nothing was left over for being an active father.
He contrasted this with another species where it was even-stevens - i.e. no sexual di-morphism and equal parenting.
He went on to point out that in humans we have marked but not massive sexual di-morphism.
It got me thinking that perhaps women by overwhelmingly preferring taller men but also equal parenting are wanting their evolutionary cake and eating it. And indeed this is not just far distant evolution as in the present day taller men have more reproductive success so its a trade off being made and then kvetched about.
Ditto male violence where there is ongoing despair about male violence then in the next breath swiping right disproportionately on those with the genes for being good at it.

I am 6’4”. Kinda limits my options.
I met with short dicks and tall ones. 😂

I prefer tall men because I'm tall myself and don't want to have to bend down to kiss him

@Cantbebothered1

Please can someone let me know AIBU?

My husband has lost it tonight over what I can see as nothing! We agreed we were going to book a holiday with my brother/sis-in-law and my parents. We have all stayed at the same hotel before and it was a fantastic holiday. Today, my husband was at work and I spoke to my sis-in-law and parents about the holiday and they all said they were going to book a swim up room so I decided we would too. It’s extra cost of about £500. My husband phoned me up all excited on his way home from work asking if we have booked yet and I said not quite yet but I had made a decision on the room but it is a bit more money. He then asked how much more and I said a bit more but I’ll tell you later as my plan was to show him the room when he got home. He kept asking on the phone and I said to him about £500 and then he asked why it was more and I said it was a swim up room and he asked what exactly that was and then he just lost it. He said it’s not about the money, it’s the fact we all kept this secret from him? I mean wtf. He was driving home from work and I was going to show him properly when he got back but now he is claiming we all know what’s happening and he doesn’t and apparently I’m snide! I mean, do I really deserve this ridiculous treatment and abuse over saying I will tell him when he gets home? It’s just trivial rubbish and I don’t feel i deserve this at all. I would also like to point out that the money is not the issue here! He thinks I’ve ruined it all and now he isn’t even interested all because I didn’t straight away tell him about a room upgrade. Am I bonkers or is he?

You need to start your own thread.

@Cantbebothered1 why not start a separate thread?

Quite!

OP I have a very tall, very good at housework, very paternal DH.

I'd be astounded (and I studied evolutionary psychology at university level) if this was a highly correlated thing. Taller = shitter. It's far more likely that in species with more sexual diamorphism, there is a population level effect. Not an individual one.

And in animals it's not necessarily height, although that is a factor. Size of bollocks for example is a big (pardon the pun) deal.

Fascinating question OP. I think women say one thing but when you observe their behaviour they choose the opposite of what they say they want. That's why alpha bully dickheads get laid and nice guys get friend-laddered. Thank goodness contraception is widely used by women in their teens and twenties because they seem especially bad at choosing dickheads instead of good guys.

My exh was short, not an equal parent and EA. So YABU.

Well, I dont find tall men attractive on the whole because they tend to be skinny and I'm an arms/shoulders girl. We always imagine them to look like Jason Momoa when in reality they look like Peter Crouch.

I agree that women go for taller men on the whole but I think you're referring to typically good looking men. The good looking men tend to get women throwing themselves at them, therefore more likely to be cheats & therefore less likely to be 'family' men.

I have zero experience in anthropology etc so will leave the analysis to professionals!

Yep posted in wrong bit! Have requested deletion! Oops

I think you are only going to get loads of people who don’t (or don’t want to ) understand statistics saying YABU my H is short and gentle in appearance but acted like a Neanderthal and vise versa.

@Guineapigbridge that's because you need a secure upbringing and plenty of experience to recognise the dickheads before it's too late!

Too me bloody ages to realise I was being used and mistreated, over and over. The dickheads are the best manipulators!

Boosting young women's self esteem and lots of relationship education could help I guess, but some things you unfortunately have to learn through experience.

Women don't deliberately choose dickheads - it isn't women's fault men exploit them.

I don’t think it has anything to do with it, Dp is 6ft8 and the kindest, most helpful, gentle man I’ve ever met. He is incredible with dd.

DD’s father was 5ft9 and a complete abusive wanker who’d like nothing more than to never bother with Dd again.

Maybe on a population level there may be some correlation, but not individually I don’t think. Interesting though!

Also the kind of parenting we do nowadays is very far removed from other species, it's hard to compare.

A swan might be a good father because he brings food and chases away foxes, but take he the cygnets to the park enough, get mother's day presents, be an equal presence in the PTA etc?!

The preference for taller men seems to be more than a preference for some women it's an absolute. Men with curly hair make me come over a bit unnecessary, but I never dated only men with curly hair and my DH does not have curly hair!

Fascinating question OP. I think women say one thing but when you observe their behaviour they choose the opposite of what they say they want. That's why alpha bully dickheads get laid and nice guys get friend-laddered. Thank goodness contraception is widely used by women in their teens and twenties because they seem especially bad at choosing dickheads instead of good guys.

I'd be interested to know if this poster was a man or a woman. I certainly found myself with a lot of "alpha bully dickheads" in my twenties (or more accurately muscly, charming fuckboys), but I also found myself approached by many less conventionally attractive men who talked at length about what a nice guy they were and how if I wasn't so shallow I would like them back. The reality was of course that I wasn't attracted to them because of the giant chip on their shoulder and the thinly veiled misogyny. I have never met a man who described himself as a nice guy who was actually a nice guy.

Bit of a tangent but in all honesty I think most men in their twenties are dickheads and it's just a choice of which type of dickhead you go for. I don't think short men are particularly nicer or make for better fathers.

Hi, I'm a woman (thanks for asking) and I agree wholeheartedly that guys that describe themselves as nice guys are usually mysogynist dickheads! 100 percent agree that most guys in their 20s are dickheads too. Great tangent. And while we're on that tangent here's my verdict: Thirties much improved. Forties perfect. Fifties starting to get grumpy....

Ha, with that in mind maybe fifties will be my time, ten years of dating men and I'm already grumpy!

I dont think its particularly height. But yes, some men are built and wired for being more physical. Men are hunters and fighters and are geared towards that. Women are cooks, homemakers, childrearers and are geared towards that. Women are often drawn to men that are able to protect and provide, that's what we needed. Men are attracted to women who can bear children.
The way we live now is very different to how our ancestors did and it has been a very short time evolutionarily. There are of course variations, and we are able to override our instincts. But equal parenting is a very new thing, a father wouldn't have parented a child beyond teaching their son to hunt and fight. And it was far more important to have a man that other men wouldn't challenge than a man that would give you an equal voice. But we are changing as a species as it is those that are prepared for that change that will be the new "alphas" our values, attractions and behaviours are changing.

I always find it highly amusing just how many women want seriously tall men and state it in an unequivocal way. It's like well over half the dating pool are stating "I won't date you if you're under 6 foot so don't bother."

Yet in the US for example, only 15% of men are over 6 foot. I don't know what the UK percentage is but I can't imagine we're a land of giants.

So why do people do it to themselves? Why? Especially when you're basically all competing for men who can have their pick etc?

I am 6 foot 1 for what it's worth (and the shortest male in my family haha) and have no bitterness around this subject, just wry amusement.

On the whole, the Dutch are a tall nation but all the Dutch men I know (family) are also really active and engaged fathers. It is noticeable.
Not sure tallness is quite right. Maybe alpha or macho men with high testosterone are less involved?

So, taller = shitter? 😂😂 How ridiculous.

Around 30% of men in Britain are six foot or over, technically it would mean the majority of shit Dads would be within that 30%.

I’m six foot, well, and half an inch, I’m also a lone adoptive father. So not a shit dad. The best Dad I know is 6’5”. Obviously that is anecdotal.

Actual fathering is a fairly new thing in most societies. Go back to 1950 and the majority of fathers would probably fit in the ‘shit’ catergory if we judged them by more equal standards of today.

There are so many variables within a study that can’t be easily controlled, the fathers own upbringing, level of education, peers etc are all likely to have an impact on the type of adult he becomes.

I think you can't help what you are attracted to.

I find charming, alpha males unattractive. To me they just seem arrogant and sleazy. I am attracted to shy, quiet men who are a little bit awkward. I am quite confident and outgoing, also fairly conventionally attractive and I find that the men I fancy usually assume I wouldn't be interested in them. I've never been treated badly or cheated on and I think it probably has something to do do with the type of man I go for. Obviously my theory is not set in stone, I'm sure there are shy awkward guys who are arseholes in a relationship and charming alpha males who treat their partners with love and respect and never cheat. I probably have been quite lucky. But many times my friends have been treated badly by men that I found arrogant and unattractive from the moment I met them (even if they were physically very attractive) while other people thought they were lovely.

I do go for tall men though but more of a lanky tall rather than hunky tall.