To think having kids really do change your career

[Everythingnotsaved]

To start- my kids are the light and joy in my life and I love them more than anything and wouldn’t be without them for a second. I love being a mum.

But I have spent the last 12 years with them being my sole focus and it is really apparent in my friend group now that those with kids have very different lives in comparison to those who don’t- I don’t think I ever really thought about it that much before.

I have a good career in that I am well paid and it is satisfying in some senses but I have stayed in it for the security it brings my family.

I think what I am trying to say is that the people I know without kids have an energy that I don’t have anymore to create their own businesses and give themselves to that & to their success.

As I said, I really wouldn’t change anything at all but it’s only now occurring to me how for me the last decade has been about raising my family & how you don’t really realise how much it takes out of you.

Aibu?

I didn't say they were the preserve of the child free. The opposite in fact - being tired and wanting a safe, normal job/career isn't just the preserve of parents. It's also how the child free feel of lot of the time. That's just how human adults feel generally.

We sometimes kid ourselves that if we were child free we'd be the CEO of our own company, as well as sky dive and climb Mt Everest every year. Would we though?

Some people have had more tangible harms, like they were due a promotion but while they were on maternity leave it was given to someone else. That's a different thing imo.

Quite simple, don't have 'em.

Happy to help.

Bullshit aside - you are most certainly not BU.

@LouiseTrees
I don't mean to sound like a c%, but that has nothing to do with the OP's question. Why are you putting your own stuff on her? Apologies, but it needed saying. My problems aren't yours, your issues aren't hers.

You've always got a bigger priority when you have kids. So career takes a back seat.

As another poster said, when my children came along they absolutely were my priority.

I carried on working full time after my first child (over three days) and I had to change to this job as my previous job meant working 4 days a week and I didn’t to be apart from him that often.

I was knackered doing the hours I did but I did it because it meant I could be with my son more.

When I had my second son I dropped to part time (25 hours) because I wanted to be at home more for both of them. My eldest son had just started school and I wanted to be able to walk him to school and collect him, and to attend his assemblies and classroom sessions that parents could attend etc. When I was growing up both my parents worked full time and I really missed having them around and I wanted differently for my children.

I have missed out on two promotions.....I can’t prove of course that it’s due to my reduced hours and having two young children, but I definitely think it played a part. I have also seen alternative jobs which have been perfect for me on paper, but I have not applied for them because the hours meant I would have had to be away from my children more than I wanted. I appreciate that was personal choice, but it’s still an example of how having children can prevent a woman from going down certain career paths.

Since the children came along my career has absolutely taken a back seat - but at the same time I wouldn’t sacrifice this time with them.

We’ve all only got 24 hours in a day. If you choose to have kids, then of course your career should take less of a priority, in favour of looking after that human being you’ve brought into the world. Although that should be for mum AND dad.

Of course, if you don’t have kids people often think you should be high achieving in other areas, but it’s absolutely valid to just live your life.

@SentientAndCognisant - we're the same, it depends on the day because we both have varying work commitments. There's no consistency in our household, just have to pick it up and go with the flow!

We had no money and DH was a student when we had DD who's now 5. DD was a surprise, I wasn't sure I wanted kids but then felt maternal when pregnant. I went back to work in low paying job when she was 3 months, determined to juggle and make a success of career to create stable life for us. My career progressed mostly after DD born and have had 4 promotions since, am manager now and will start semi-senior management role in Oct.

In our household it's all in. We divide everything equally and it's not fucking hard, we both just crack on with what needs to be done and keep communicating. We will say right if you're doing bedtime, I'll do dishes. Rarely does one of us sits while the others doing housework, we do it together until it's done and we can both sit. I tend to cook but DH keen to support so he tries to do 1-2 times a week but that's the only thing I do more of.

I don't understand men who don't do housework or who need supervision and a list of what to do. It's boring, selfish and unsexy trait in a man in my books.

My career was left behind.
I was a scientist, working in research, involving sporadic hours, travelling, unplanned overtime to see experiments finished- I couldn't just walk away from something that was running over time.
My OH also had a job that involved shifts, lots of travel, overnights away the other end of the country most weeks,
I had no family support, and one of y children had poor health right through primary schol, rarely acheiving over 75% school attendance.
I jacked in my job completely- and 22 years later never did get back into the workplace.
owever I have made the most of the time that I have had, and looking back would have it no other way.

Having 2 DC hasn’t affected my career, looks like I’m in the minority though. I’d worked up to a decent level by the time I had DC1 at 35 and was promoted whilst on maternity leave, now in quite a senior position. Love my fulfilling career/job and my DH shares drop offs/pick ups, all the general stress and admin. I’m lucky to maintain reasonable work/life balance so evenings and weekends are family time.

Absolutely can be done - but leaving your career in furlough for ten years will obviously affect your progression.

YANBU. I have my own business and so I've developed it to some extent, but I'm earning half of what XP earns, and I earned more than him when DD was born, but as a LP it's been limited what I'm able to do. I now find myself in my early 50s with some health conditions and caring for my mum and completely knackered and starting to experience ageism at work and just thinking "what happened?" Having DD will always be the best thing that happened to me, but I haven't developed to my potential workwise and although early 50s isn't "old" I do feel I've missed the boat and feel a bit adrift.

It doesn’t always follow that if you are equal co parents that neither career will be affected.

I’m a teacher, DP is self employed. PIL do childcare. I am at the top of the teacher pay scales and would like to move onto the upper pay scale. It doesn’t matter how much DP takes on at home, the fact of the matter is that if I want to move on I need to lead (more) projects that would require a lot of out of hours work. To facilitate this, DP would need to take our daughter out of the house for a lot of time at the weekends and I would barely see her. So I choose to plateau - and by plateau I mean work hours every evening but keep weekends free - while we still have little ones at home who need us present.

It isn’t always simply a case of if you share the responsibilities you can have it all.

I'm a bit like you, Tabby. Am ill-timed pregnancy closed a few doors. Now, as lp to a 12-year old, I'm eyeing up some interesting jobs but don't can't see how I can realistically do the required travel. Mind you, I blame the mortgage too.

Having kids is tough & expensive. The fertility rate for under 30s is at a record low & the overall rate has dropped I think.

I know loads of women who don't want children as they don't want to give up their "life" or women who plan to have 1 in their late 30s. I don't think you need to have dc to have a fulfilling life.

Working with dc successfully generally means having a partner who can help, money to afford help, outsourcing &/or family help.

I found going from 1-2 dc very different in terms of impact on my life.

It isn’t always simply a case of if you share the responsibilities you can have it all.

Very true!

My husband does more than his fair share of housework, cooking, childcare (for want of a better word), he’s fantastic, but his monthly bring home pay is still about double what I bring home.

I could increase my hours in order to be on par with his pay but that would mean sacrificing my time with my children which I don’t want to do. I want my energy and my time to be spent on my children, not my job.

My career and income have come second place to my children in a number of ways but equally, that’s just not my priority whilst my children are so young - despite having a husband whose input would allow me to have it all if I wanted.

I think it does unless...
a. You have a partner who is willing/able to pick up all childcare responsibilities, so it's fine if you work late, go on work trips etc..
b. You have extended family who will do the above (might be trickier to organise though).
c. You have an in-house nanny.

In short - you have made arrangements so you only see your DC when you don't have/want to work (so you can work like a person without DC). And tbh I think that's how it is for most men.

@RaisinGhost

Actually I think the cause and effect are switched here. I find people who have a lot of energy, interest and success in their careers often choose to remain child free. So it's no surprise their careers continue along that path.

People who have ok careers but it maybe isn't such a passion for them, look for something else to be interested in and fill the time, and so often choose to have children.

Don't blame the children in other words.

This hasn't gone down well but I actually agree with you. I always think it's funny how many women on MN think they'd be a CEO who constantly travelled the world sipping cocktails if it weren't for those pesky kids - not many childfree people actually have lives like that.

I changed careers after having DS, and have just dropped hours in my new job so that I work four days not five. My old career as an academic was much more interesting but also involved a lot of travel and long hours and I didn't want to do it any more after DS. But, in hindsight, I think that's because I didn't want to do it any more at all. I knew before having him that because I was still on temporary contracts I was really harming my chances of succeeding; I didn't want to do what lots of other women I know did and wait until my very late 30s to have a child so I chose to take that risk. Looking back, too, I think I never had the passion and love for academia that lots of people did - I liked it, but I didn't want it more than a baby, which so many people do. So I don't think having DS changed me as much as crystallised what was already there, even if that did lead to choices I wouldn't have predicted beforehand.

I also think that people aren't very honest with themselves about what is and isn't a choice. I hate it when women (it's always women) say they 'couldn't' work full-time, or use a nursery, or leave their baby - they mean they don't want to and don't have to and that's totally legitimate and fine but of course they could do those things, lots of women do, some of them because they have no choice. I could have continued in my job where I was away for half the week every other week and where I worked every evening after working full days and was still barely treading water but it was making me miserable and I didn't want to.

I appreciate that was personal choice, but it’s still an example of how having children can prevent a woman from going down certain career paths.

Some choices preclude other choices as in all areas of life really.

[quote Watdafark]@LouiseTrees
I don't mean to sound like a c%, but that has nothing to do with the OP's question. Why are you putting your own stuff on her? Apologies, but it needed saying. My problems aren't yours, your issues aren't hers.[/quote]
There are two elements to her AIBU. Does having kids change your career, of course unless you are never the default parent for the kids life admin? Is it always greener on the other side? No. Can she suddenly unhave the kids? No. When they are older perhaps she too can have her own business or whatever she wants to put her mind to. So yeh you do sound a bit like what you said you did.

Without a doubt I'd be working at a more senior level had I not had kids. I took a lesser role with fantastic work life balance and have struggled to get my career even back where it was before, mostly because I dont want to give up the work life balance.

Actually I was ready to this year and had since interviews lined up. But coronavirus put paid to that.

I've been lucky to have a management career that works well as a part time role (although I would say I often work more hours than I am paid for) it is incredibly flexible and has allowed me to mix work and home life well. I am a very good multi tasker because of the frequent need to switch between roles at a moments notice and I also think I am more laid back in work because the kids keep me grounded and busy enough outside of work that I don't have time to worry and get overly focussed on workplace politics!

When my kids were little I would have agreed with you OP. I felt like it would be impossible to continue with my own career and parent.
And I was surrounded by women who felt the same and here on MN the theme was repeated on a loop.

Then one day I looked at my (extremely successful) DH and thought hang on, how come he’s doing alright?

So we changed stuff for me to start a new career. TBH it required a different mind set on both our parts. Of course other mums in real life and on here predicted disaster - unhappy children, divorce etc

But here we are ten years later and my kids are grown and lovely and everything you could want and I’m still married. And I have an amazing career (although the shit is currently hitting the fan - damn you Covid).

I do also think - again, a bit controversial - that having children can give an 'excuse' to focus less on work that lots of people would actually like. I think a lot of my childfree friends would like to work part-time but find it difficult to justify. I had thought about leaving academia before and, if I'm honest, one of the things that had stopped me was feeling like I'd look and feel like a failure - it felt much easier to do after DS because then I had a narrative that no one really questioned. For every woman I know who has been really sad at how her career has changed post-DC - and I do know some of these - I know another who saw mat leave and then reduced hours as a massive perk of having children, and these are all professional women with careers they worked hard for. I know a GP who is planning her pregnancies (planning no. 3 now) to ensure she goes back for the minimum necessary time to get paid leave each time, so I wouldn't really say the impact on her career is something she deeply regrets.

I think what you say is largely true. Of course there will be exceptions. And it does depend on the type of career you had pre children.

I worked in a very intense, creative, competitive industry where long hours (sometimes pulling all nighters), networking, and Friday team nights down the pub were very important to career progression. All fine if you’re fancy free and childless - and when I was both of those things my career thrived and I did really well.

As soon as I had children it all changed. I had no help from family, and DH worked away during the week, so I had to leave the office at 4.30 each day to make sure I could pick up DCs from nursery before 6pm closing. My career withered and died on the vine and it was very distressing.

I’m now retraining in a completely different field, so I can fit my work round the kids more easily.

DH’s career of course was totally unaffected and has gone from straight to strength (although it made sense to prioritise his because he’s always earned more than me - patriarchy!!).

Having said all that, I do think I might have had a better chance of holding onto my career if I’d worked in a less idiosyncratic industry in the first place.

@Hardbackwriter very astute and wise posts. I agree with you.