To ask about the inequalities and economics of face masks?

[Pepperwort]

This is now an extra compulsory expense of life at a time of economic issues for many. I’m wondering how easily most / all people can add this to their bills.

There are also luxury varieties appearing on the market offering increased protection, despite the lack of research on them so far, which conceivably might reduce chances of catching it. I’m wondering about both elements.

This might be useful

https://communitymasktrees.org/find-a-local-mask-tree/

I made four BBC design ones (with filter pocket) out of an old t-shirt dress I'd got too fat for- put aside for charity. The sewing stall in our covered market was selling 'ends' of elastic for pence, so it cost me hardly anything to make them and only a couple of hours to sew them - I could've sewn them more quickly if I'd been arsed to lug the sewing machine out of hiding.

www.amazon.co.uk/K-MART-Pack-cloth-Face-Masks/dp/B089S399NX/ref=mp_s_a_1_38_sspa?dchild=1&psc=1&keywords=face+masks+washable+uk&sprefix=face+&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFONUlXQ09GRzZKQ0UmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTEwMTg2NDcyQ0tKSU44VTlMSDdHJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAwMzYzNjkyWTQ1WFhVRzdGSTVaJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfcGhvbmVfc2VhcmNoX210ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1596301549&sr=8-38-spons

@Grottyfeet

I’ve just seen these masks. 10 for £10

I can buy cloth face covers for £2 each so am quite impressed by the person whose entire weekly shop is just £16.

Don’t you just love mn and it’s double standards.
One minute we have 10 page threads about period poverty and young girls who can’t afford basic hygiene supplies and then we have “but they are only a couple of quid so everyone can afford one”

£65 for a families face masks is completely out of touch with the current economic climate and reality for many.

@Grottyfeet

I know all of those things are possible and whilst my food bill is low, my income isn't, so it's not a problem for me but OP's point is that it's another pressure on poor people.

I work with teens who use public transport to school. The vast majority are from very deprived families but there is already a pecking order and "desirable" masks, with ridicule if you have the wrong sort.

If you can dismiss "a few pounds" as nothing you have no understanding at all of how some families live.

But you could say that about anything. Of course people from deprived areas lose out more.

School uniforms are astronomical and I often wonder how they expect the poorest in society to folk out such high costs for uniforms school insist they wear.

And yes I’m sure there are designer ones but that’s the same as clothes etc... and shoes, phones and jewellery.

You said it could cost a weeks worth of shopping and yes I’m sure it could if you go daft buying branded extra special designer ones. My point was that you can get them for £1 each.

The so called disposable masks might potentially carry an infection risk in the same way that disposable nappies are. It must surely be better to have masks made out of cloth which can be washed? I am notifying more and more just thrown onto the ground. We have enough rubbish as it is!

@Proudboomer

Don’t you just love mn and it’s double standards. One minute we have 10 page threads about period poverty and young girls who can’t afford basic hygiene supplies and then we have “but they are only a couple of quid so everyone can afford one”

£65 for a families face masks is completely out of touch with the current economic climate and reality for many.

No need to lay £65 for family face masks!

You can get them for £1 each!

These masks.....what are we actually inhaling?

Home made masks washed in the machine, you are inhaling washing powder residue.....the cheap single use ones, god knows what’s in them!

I’m in retail.... my throat has gone from sore to hurting. Will there be a run on respiratory cancers in a few years because of this?

There's no required specification for the mask so if money was a problem I'd use something I owned like a woolly scarf or do the recycled sock/T-shirt ones available online. (Everyone has a sock or tshirt that looks tired or an odd sock that could be repurposed. )

I made mine (by hand, no machines). They are 4 layers, 2 of them filters, are fully washable and made to better standards than most available easily. So far 15 of them has cost me £4. They really don't need to be expensive.

An alternative is just something wrapped over your lower face. Most people in the country will have something kicking about at home they could use for free.

You can pick masks up for less that a £1 each in multi packs and make your own very easily, and they are washable so you do not need many. If people can afford a phone they can afford a mask. Most people I see have the blue ones or the fabric ones. I don't see any of the fancier filtered ones.

If someone doesn’t have a pond to by a pack of maxi pads how come they now have a pound to buy a cheap mask that is probably single ply, no filter and more than likely useless?

They will reuse the same grotty mask again and again ....it will be germ ridden and useless

I today watched a woman drop hers in the car park and just stick it on her face

Nobody is doing the required washing of hands before/after touching the mask either

Community groups and food banks are giving them out free to elderly, vulnerable and food bank users

If you can dismiss "a few pounds" as nothing you have no understanding at all of how some families live.
This is what was worrying me. It’s a public health issue as well as inequality - I guess ‘herd immunity’ is still part of government thinking. It would be nice to think that these things had been thought about and logistics of distribution considered, but this is modern Britain.

It’s gpod to know some local organisations are stepping into the gaps. My local food bank doesn’t have any details on their website so I’ll have to get in touch directly. I wonder if an occasional dribble of masks I can make whenever would be of use or does it have to be an industrial supply, anyone know?

Lunar I am really not taking links from the Express or something that praises Sweden’s performance in Covid seriously. The general opinion is that masks help a little, and that little bit of help is, well, a little bit of help.

If you get in touch with the council they will register you for the free masks

Disabled people have to pay for all kinds of things and nobody seems to mind that. Buying a few face masks is noting.

Anyone who doesn't have money would use any piece of cloth, surely?
As someone said, it doesn't safeguard the wearer as much as it safeguards others. So having a fancy one doesn't create an unequal health divide compared to poorer people.

@Lunar567

Masks don't protect anyone and only add to waste. If you don't have simptoms you cannot infect anyone. I don't bother with masks, just keep my distance. Nobody said anything to me in a shop so far.

Lunar567, this post, and all your subsequent posts, suggest to me and PPs that you have got the wrong end of the stick. I am really sorry to hear this. Is it comfortable or usual for you to not believe the things you hear or read by reputable scientists and be in a different position to the vast majority of the general public? If so, maybe what I and other posters say won't make any difference. But please allow me the courtesy of a chance to try?

First, the evidence you posted. Three papers, one evidence-based and two opinions (extreme minority opinions, and not by scientists, but fall in the category of conspiracy theories). As another PP pointed out, you have misinterpreted the evidence based one. The authors actually updated their original 2015 study that you linked to, to lessen the chance of it being misinterpreted. The takeaway is this "cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations" which as a PP pointed out, is not the case for the general public. We aren't health care workers in high-risk situations and the comparison made in that study was in 2015 clinical situations not at all relevant to cloth mask wearing by the general public. Even if you want to believe that, and certainly it does seem cloth is less effective than surgical (less effective is not the same as useless), why would you not want to protect others by wearing a mask? Do you usually live your life that way, ignoring others' well being?

I am sorry about your friend's 80-year old mum. But 80-year olds who can't wear masks, like many others, are exempted (and should be).

Healthy people surely can put a mask on, even if they don't agree it's a perfect solution, it's only a bit of inconvenience compared to the horrible situation some face, which is the 80-year old catching COVID and dying... or worse?

Please can you consider that maybe what you thought was evidence is not evidence?

May be this very balanced piece will help. the author, Trish Greenhalgh , is an extremely well respected (and no-nonsense) expert:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/05/face-masks-coronavirus

I have spent over £50 on reusable masks for DS and me. I've also bought disposable ones from time to time and to have as spares. Quite a big outgoing when you're furloughed from a minimum wage job, and even worse for larger families on UC or who haven't managed to get any help during the crisis.

Just because you’ve seen one for £20, it doesn’t mean that most people are spending that sort of money. I made masks for our family from pieces of material, but recently bought some spare reusable ( and washable) perfectly serviceable sturdy ones from Superdrug for £2.99.

I bought reuseable ones and they were expensive - from Etsy (in the region of £8-11 each including postage). Two did not fit my young child correctly so that was £20 down the drain (non returnable). And there is the cost of washing masks at 60deg after one wear - this uses more energy than a standard 40 deg wash and frankly I hate running a washing at less than full load. So I've gone disposable a £30 for a box.

Personally I would prefer the 2m guidance to remain as this is proven effective whereas the masks??

@IwishIwasyoda

I bought reuseable ones and they were expensive - from Etsy (in the region of £8-11 each including postage). Two did not fit my young child correctly so that was £20 down the drain (non returnable). And there is the cost of washing masks at 60deg after one wear - this uses more energy than a standard 40 deg wash and frankly I hate running a washing at less than full load. So I've gone disposable a £30 for a box.

Personally I would prefer the 2m guidance to remain as this is proven effective whereas the masks??

You should still be maintaining 2m distance. No one strategy will work on its own.

Wash hands
Cough/sneeze etiquette
Maintain 2m distance
Isolate if you have symptoms
Don't touch you face, particularly eyes, nose and mouth
Wear a mask when you are in areas, particularly indoors, with other people

Also, the efficacy of masks has been proven as one method of reducing the spread of the virus.

a proper evidence base that stands up to scrutiny and analysis

That description does not describe many of the 'pro-mask' editorials and commentary, and even some primary research that got thru some kind of peer review. Truly does not. There's a big dose of hysteria by some on the pro-mask side. Trish Greenhalgh rather pointedly said that evidence should not be used to decide whether to endorse masks. She declared that the precautionary principle should apply instead. The BMJ was happy to promote TG's opinion. The last time I heard of precautionary principle was in 2001 when I tried to convince some American policy maker it could be a good idea (she looked at me like I was mentally unwell).

There are whole Twitter threads about some of the dreadful articles that made it into peer review and concluded mask-wearing was good thing (PNAS article is only most infamous example so far).

I dunno if masks are going to be useful or not. I still take umbrage at those insisting that rationality has overwhelmingly prevailed on the pro-mask side. It's very easy to evidence that's not true.