To admit my heritage on job equality forms?

[StaticTraveller]

TL:DR I'm from a traveller background but on monitoring forms ie for job applications I have always identified as white, British as I am afraid of being discriminated against.
Given the surge in awareness of BAME equality, the BLM protests and other social movement would I be discriminated against if I identify myself as White/Traveller.

The long version is that my Mum was brought up in a family of Irish Tinkers Dad and Romany Mum. In itself that was frowned on at the time.

My Grandparents owned a popular roadside cafe. Dad was a young builder, he met my Mum when she was working in the cafe. She was 17, he was 18 and they've been inseparable ever since although my maternal Grandparents took some persuading!

My parents started out in a council flat, grafted hard and Dad set up his own business, all legit, they've done well for themselves.

I've never lived on a site. As a child I would sometimes travel with my a Grandparents and I've always been a part of both sides of my family.

At school I would never have admitted my traveller background. Even now, while there is a strong social movement towards racial equality it seems that racism towards travellers persists and is still deemed to be acceptable.

On application forms I've only ever identified as white, British because I'm aware of the feeling against travellers. This has never sat comfortably with me, I would like to acknowledge both parts of my heritage.

I know that there should be no discrimination but it does happen. I've often seen MN threads complaining about travellers.

Lately I have been applying for jobs. WIBU and discriminated against if I started to admit my traveller background when it comes up?

These forms are not used as part of your cv, as far as I know. They are usually just for monitoring how many of who applied?

I use White other, would that not be an option too?

The people shortlisting shouldn’t see this information, it’s just they need to record who is applying.

What Schrodingers said - AFAIK, the ethnicity monitoring form should be separated off from your job application and anonymised, and the people doing the paper sift/interviewing shouldn't see it.

This would definitely be the case where I work (public sector, HR are scrupulous) - but whether that's actually the case in all organisations I don't know.

I totally get where you're coming from. I'm always horrified by the amount of anti-traveller racism where I live (very close friend who is part Romany and I see how much it hurts her). I can understand the tension between not wanting to be discriminated against, but feeling like you ought to stand up and be counted.

Remember there's no right or wrong answer - you don't have to fight all battles in your life, but at the same time if you do choose to fight this one head on, good luck.

Serious question, how many generations does it take for White/Traveller to become White/British?

I once had a temping job in a HR dept at a university and those forms were never seen by the people on shortlisting or interview panels. This was many years ago, but I assume things are still the same.

As others have said, the interviewers don't normally get to see it.

But if you're still concerned, you can always tick 'White Other'.

I think companies should maybe very clearly write it at the top, in big letters. I know it says monitoring but adding something like that this form will not be seen by x and x and will not be used for y and y. I think companies would be surprised how would the demographic applying change on paper. I heard before that people lie on these because they are worried it will be part of the decision on whether they get interview or not.
Unless it is👀

Was your father also from a Traveller background? You didn’t say that he was so I am assuming not. Which means you as much Traveller as you are not. Interesting that you give preference to that side of your heritage.

Those forms are not used to make hiring decisions. They are used to collect data about the work force diversity if you do get hired.

White, other is a good idea. Though it still feels like I'm denying part of myself.

ThousandFlowers I don't have an answer to that, it's a question I've asked myself before, what am I, exactly? I can only answer your question with another question. My friend was born to a Ghanaian Father and a Scottish Mother. How many generations before her descendants would be considered to be White, British? I've talked about this with her, in the context of both of us. We don't have an answer either.

I'm darker skinned, if someone was considering it they would probably guess that I have distant Mediterranean or possibly North African ancestry but I'm white enough to be considered White. I am half White British.

BritWifeinUSA my Dad is blonde haired, blue eyed and British.

I don't have a preference for either side of my heritage, both sides are and always were accepting of me and very kind.

It wouldn't be much of a thread if the title of this thread was AIBU to say that I'm White British? In the UK being White British is both unremarkable and not normally the cause of racism or discrimination. Being of traveller descent can be the cause of discrimination.

As I've never worked in HR I wasn't aware that the interviewer doesn't see the ethnicity form. That helps with my decision making.

I'm a public sector worker. We're relocating. Even though I have long known the anti discrimination policies at work the reality is that in the past I've overheard colleagues complaining when travellers have turned up locally.

I've seen for myself that some of my maternal community do pitch up somewhere illegally and cause many problems. The flip side of this is that the traveller community would argue that there are insufficient legal sites.

I do understand both sides of the argument.

When I knew them my Grandparents ran a successful business the roadside cafe which was on a piece of land they had bought. The result is that they didn't travel as much as they had done before they had their own children. I'd guess that they travelled intermittently for 3 months of the year and always with a purpose ie a fair, festival or to visit family. They always paid business and council taxes, their business would have been closed down if they hadn't.

When they retired they lived on the piece of land that they owned. They had a few static homes on that site, including one they kept for visitors.

That was a long and uncalled for explanation, I know that but I wanted to head off any criticism of their lifestyle.

Oh yes and before she passed away my Grandma saw some of the Big Fat Gypsy Wedding series and was disappointed in some of the behaviour she saw

Hi op, your family background sounds really interesting. It’s fascinating to hear about others lives and experiences.

I sit on interview panels, public sector. We never see this info and never ask. I don’t know anyone else on any of the panels who would care
what it says, it is purely to monitor recruitment. We really are looking for the best fit. I have never been part of any discussion about the candidates that might be anywhere close to discrimination. It is all job focussed.

My kids, white but dual citizens; I tick White Other. When the eldest joined the school, the office administrator wanted to change it to White British. It had nothing to do with her what I ticked, and I made her keep it. She had no business to even suggest it but that is the only time anyone has ever questioned it.

I did once in an application in an educational setting. I thought it would be anon but they questioned my ability to stay put (!) and whether I’d just drop out to go on my travels. My parents abandoned the lifestyle to have settled kids so we were alway sedentary but my grandparents stuck with it until they died. It is my heritage and I’m proud of that part of me but it goes down like a lead balloon if I bring it up at anything other than party conversations.

Serious question, how many generations does it take for White/Traveller to become White/British?

I think I know where you're going with this. I believe you retain your heritage but the discrimination does end. I have Polish heritage. I certainly hear a lot of anti-Polish stuff which is upsetting. But it's never affected me. It would affect me if I had the accent. Second generation, especially as I don't have the surname, there is no effect.

If you're public sector, I wouldn't worry too much. You could always request to see the HR policy on the forms - exactly who gets to see them. Unfortunately if you were talking about applying to smaller organisations where everything is sent directly to the hiring manager, rather than HR, I'd have to say be cautious. Those forms should not be used in making decisions, but bias - conscious or unconscious- is only eliminated if the form is not seen by anyone making decisions. As you said, anti-traveller discrimination is alive and well even now. The difficult choice of whether to shoulder risk to support your community, versus protecting yourself, is a horrible one to be faced with, and I absolutely would not judge you whichever side you came down on.

Now I wonder if I have gotten jobs if I filled white british instead of white other before or if my super central/eastern european name is the thing which stopped me😂

Am I odd in refusing to answer ?

@WorraLiberty

As others have said, the interviewers don't normally get to see it.

But if you're still concerned, you can always tick 'White Other'.

Or just not answer - they can't force you and can't hold it against you.

If they are actually using it to discriminate not answering might send yours right to bin too, that's my thinking🤔

Mine goes anyway because people have issues to pronounce my surname 😂

In theory this information should not be accessible to the decision maker for your job and should only be used in an anonymised way to buy a statistical picture for the company in ensuring they are being diverse- this is in theory anyway.

It's entirely up to you, personally I don't think these are good, they're anti-discrimination theatre, statistics for the sake of statistics, HR managers and interviewers and similar rarely hire enough people for any statistical bias to be found in their decisions - "Our background forms show Barney is a racist" just doesn't happen, Barney won't be hiring enough people to have any confidence in such a statement - reviewing actual candidates, their performance and looking for bias might, but instead companies just collect statistics.

Like DGRosseti, I always decline to answer, and then sometimes feel guilty as that makes company statistics almost certainly look different to reality.

There should be a common system where these forms are not seen by anyone until end of the process when someone is hired or the position ends up unfilled. Not before.

Like DGRosseti, I always decline to answer, and then sometimes feel guilty as that makes company statistics almost certainly look different to reality.

We have to treat everyone equally
How ?
By making them answer questions on what makes them different