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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Mum being attacked

49 replies

flygirl767 · 31/07/2020 21:34

I've posted about this on a long term thread in elderly parents but I need some advice now please.

Briefly, my 86 year old frail mum has been in an acute MH unit for the last 7 weeks suffering from delirium and mild dementia. She was cleared for discharge last week so just waiting to organise a place at a care home for short term respite care.

This morning mum was punched on the arm by a new patient. I was told this both by mum and the nurse when I went to visit today. This evening, the charge nurse has called to say this woman is targeting my mum and has gone for her again and chucked water over her. I am beside myself-how can they allow a violent patient on a ward with many elderly patients? They have said they are trying to find her (the new patient) another bed in a different ward and have her on surveillance now but mum will be terrified. Knowing the ward as I now do, there re very few staff in over the weekend and I am not convinced mum will be safe. AIBU to think this woman needs to be removed from the ward like now? There must be somewhere for her to go.

No idea what tomorrow will bring but I really need to take this further, any idea who I should ask to speak to?

OP posts:

IdblowJonSnow · 31/07/2020 23:51

Sorry op, this sounds stressful.
Hope it gets resolved quickly.

Pobblebonk · 31/07/2020 23:52

@Leaannb

You are correct that the woman needs to be moved but unfortunately they ha e to find somewhere else to place her. Just like you are waiting for a place at a care home she will be waiting a place for another ward

But they also have to keep other patients safe; "waiting for a place" doesn't exempt them from that duty.

cuparfull · 01/08/2020 00:05

Thats a disgrace that a Charge Nurse would ring you and say your mum is being actively targeted by another, younger patient.
Sounds like the Charge Nurse is inept. It's his job to sort it.

Ask the most senior person on the ward what has been done to mitigate the risks. If you're not happy demand to speak to the most senior person in the hospital.
Google the management team, ring and email them so you have records.
Phone and email the Chief Exec. Create a fuss, do not let it rest.

Mask up properly and go in and meet with a senior person. Read them the riot act. Do not be deterred.

Impress upon them you will sue if your mum sustains any injuries.
I've been there on both sides of similar situations. Sadly its those that shout loudest get heard.

Has your mum had a recent covid test for a fast move to a care home?

cuparfull · 01/08/2020 00:09

And for your records, ask immediately for a copy of the incident reports. I take it you're her next of kin.

SisyphusAndTheRockOfUntidiness · 01/08/2020 00:21

Ask them what their plan / policy is to prevent this happening again / to keep your mum & other patients safe. As the other patient that became violent is now a proven risk to the rest of the residents.

Seeingadistance · 01/08/2020 00:39

A couple of years back I heard a radio programme about violent patients assaulting other patients in residential care. All too often, nothing was done, nothing changed, with sometimes truly horrific results.

OP, I’d report this to the Police. Your DM has been assaulted, and if this had happened in any other setting, it would recognised and dealt with as a crime against your poor DM.

jessstan2 · 01/08/2020 00:46

If you can take her out for up to two hours, take her out and don't go back until a care home is found for her.

Felifox · 01/08/2020 07:39

Contact CQC* immediately and report, giving details of the staff involvement and check online to see what the latest report on the hospital says. I'd also report it to both the police, which I see another pp advises, and your MP as well as insisting on seeing a senior nursing officer. Good luck with being persistent as it's just appalling that this is happening.

*Care Quality Commission do inspect hospitals

Jarli · 01/08/2020 07:45

If you can take her out for up to two hours, take her out and don't go back until a care home is found for her.

Whatever you do, do not fucking do this. It will be a huge waste of resources for not only the overstretched ward but other agencies as well.

Sounds really awful OP. There definitely should be a staff member with this lady or with your mum.

They won't release incident reports immeditaly to you, but put in a request now.

Write a letter and copy in people higher up, including adult social services safeguarding team to ask that your mum's case is reviewed.

You've said this is a respite care placement - who is the respite for? You may need to put that on hold (respite isn't really prioritised at the moment due to COVID). Can you look after your mum at home? It sounds like it would only be a short respite stay from what you have written - ask about postponing it and getting Mum home?

Jarli · 01/08/2020 07:47

@cuparfull "Mask up Properly and go in and see them" - you do realise OP would be putting a shit lot of people at risk by doing this don't you?

Original poster

flygirl767 · 01/08/2020 08:25

@Jarli

If you can take her out for up to two hours, take her out and don't go back until a care home is found for her.

Whatever you do, do not fucking do this. It will be a huge waste of resources for not only the overstretched ward but other agencies as well.

Sounds really awful OP. There definitely should be a staff member with this lady or with your mum.

They won't release incident reports immeditaly to you, but put in a request now.

Write a letter and copy in people higher up, including adult social services safeguarding team to ask that your mum's case is reviewed.

@Jarli yes at her discharge meeting, the consultant and SW thought she would be better going into respite care for 4 weeks before going home. However, after speaking to 2 care homes and realising she would be quarantined alone in a locked room for 2 weeks, I have contacted the SW and asked if she could go home with maximum care package. I can't look after her but we are happy to pay for more care should she need it. SS pay for 4 visits a day I believe.

I absolutely would not abscond with mum, I know that would cause all sorts of bother. I will ask for urgent leave if necessary and she can spend the day here with us. I've spoken to the ward this morning and they have assured me that the other patient will be moved today. Not sure if that will actually happen but we have had a long conversation about how they will be protecting mum today. I feel slightly better and mum seems fine, more concerned that her knickers haven't come back from the laundry!

OP posts:

michelle1504 · 01/08/2020 08:42

@cuparfull

I'm not really sure where to start with your post. How is it "disgraceful" that a Charge Nurse has informed the OP that her mum is being targetted by this patient? It is part of a nurses duty of candour that they are open and honest with relatives. This patient does indeed sound as though they are targeting her mum. Therefore the CN has a duty to inform the next of kin about this. If the staff hadn't bothered telling the OP and she had inadvertently found out? I guarantee that someone like you would be kicking off that the family hadn't been informed.

"Read them the riot act". No. Go in and have a conversation with staff. If she doesn't feel as though she is being listened to then she can escalate it to the next person.

Where does the OP say that this patient is a younger patient? Generally MH wards are split between under and over 65s.

Hitting out and staff and patients is sadly very common in dementia settings (probably around 10x more common than in any other health setting). It sounds as though the staff are already taking steps to mitigating the situation seeing as they have started by informing the OP of the situation. Along with them looking into an urgent move for the other patient.

"Mask up Properly and go in and see them". Yeah, and get removed by police for putting public health at risk.

Dear me....

michelle1504 · 01/08/2020 08:50

@flygirl767 I was going to give you some advice but it sounds as though you are dealing with it really well and everything that needs to be done is being done. I'm glad to hear that the staff are working towards mitigating the risk as much as possible with the move for the other patient, watching out etc, it must be a weight off your mind (somewhat).

I know you probably have the worst thoughts going through your mind about your mum being violently targetted and I don't blame you, I would be exactly the same. Not that I'm saying it's acceptable in anyway, because it isn't, but more than likely it will be another lady with dementia who has hit out at your mum on occasion. Staff are generally always around to intervene. I know that doesn't make it any better but please don't have the thought in your head of some big massive lady lying in wait to attack your mother! It will sound worse than it is.

All the best to you and your mum.

Jarli · 01/08/2020 08:51

@flygirl767 it's really tough, I really feel for you.

Emergency leave for one day sounds fabulous if you can get that arranged.

Have you heard of Dementia Voices (that's what they are called in our area at least). They are singing groups and are running online zoom sessions here - they have been amazing for our two relatives with dementia.

Jarli · 01/08/2020 08:52

Well they've been amazing because they are a short period of respite for whoever is with them when the sessions run.

michelle1504 · 01/08/2020 09:07

Sorry, *call in, and have a conversation with staff. Why can't we edit on bloody MN!

JRUIN · 01/08/2020 09:50

I don't have any advice but just want to say that your post really upset me and I really feel for you and your poor mum. I realise that psychiatric wards are often understaffed but surely a violent patient should be guarded at all times in communal areas. It is your mum's right to be safe in the place she resides.

ItsAlwaysSunnyOnMN · 01/08/2020 10:12

Unfortunately this does happen often

Do not feel guilty about kicking up a fuss it’s not acceptable for your mum to be attacked the wards are often frightening enough places

It is a nightmare situation but the other patients needs/care plan are not your concern. Speak to the manager and get their managers names and email them all

Maybe it will make more work for overstretched staff but again that is not your problem

I work in MH we are overstretched we are dealing with a high number of community patients relapsing in some areas of management need a kick up the arse some don’t and unfortunately in many cases families have to really push and not back down on keeping their family members as safe as possible it shouldn’t be that way

You only have to consider your mothers safety

cuparfull · 01/08/2020 10:40

I have been in a similar situation and it didn't end well. Do whatever you need to protect your mum and to hell with the naysayers!

There are too many bloody anonymous administrators whose offices line the corridors of our hospitals and when you want to talk to a real, senior person who can help you, there's only a Charge Nurse covering the whole hospital over the weekend.
Sometimes you have to push back to protect your loved ones. Create mayhem to be heard by those at the top. Speak to the local paper.

Shame on the charge nurse laying the burden upon you unless he'd come up with a solution.

MNHQ

LouMumsnet · 01/08/2020 10:45

We're just bobbing on here to say that we've disabled voting, as requested @flygirl767 - hope that helps.

Roselilly36 · 01/08/2020 10:47

You poor thing OP, what an awful situation. I hope they will keep your mum safe, I feel so sorry for her. Make a fuss & keep tabs on your mum care is the only advice I can give, could PALS help?

C8H10N4O2 · 01/08/2020 14:33

Where does the OP say that this patient is a younger patient?

The OP stated about the other patient:
She obviously has MH issues but she is not elderly. It is a mixed ward but with a fair amount of elderly ladies

OP do you have a Power of Attorney for your mother? If not are you putting on in place in case of future episodes? Having elderly people in hospital is a complete nightmare in terms of trying to get basic information just now, but I did find the magic words "I'm her legal power of attorney, yes it is in force and in your notes" was more effective in getting answers from people. (In my case elderly person had had an odd accident in hospital, nursing staff not allowed to give much info, consultant leading care was far too busy to talk to me until I said the magic words - they called back within 15 mins).

And don't start me on the utter shit show which is social care, especially on discharge. Two week's quarantine seems to be standard in homes which offer short term convalescence/respite care currently and you need to be quadriplegic at death's door for a sniff of a convalesence hospital bed for a week or two so you are stuck with a social care system which ranges from non existent to inadequate.

C8H10N4O2 · 01/08/2020 14:35

Sometimes you have to push back to protect your loved ones

Unfortunately this is true, especially just now. There are real horror stories about elderly/vulnerable who don't have mouthy relatives to fight for them.

Felifox · 01/08/2020 18:08

Pleased to hear you have more positive news today, hope your dm can come home, hope it helps her being in familiar surroundings.

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