To ask you how much you’d offer for this flat

[Solaran]

We’ve found a flat we love but it needs work doing.

The work it needs is:
New kitchen and bathroom
New floors throughout
Possible replaster

Also:
Removal of a faux fireplace that isn’t in keeping
Build up of two structural walls previously removed (this would put a bedroom back in as per the original floor plan)
Replacement of internal doors and other similar low level cosmetic stuff - everything is in bad condition.

The flat is on the market for £800k. Flats of the same size in the same block sell for about that, some a bit less -£700k ish (some have better views than others etc).

I wouldn’t pay the asking price as it needs quite a bit of work but how low should our first offer be? Is there a general rule of thumb? We could estimate the cost of the work and reduce the offer by that much, but then surely it’s got to be a bit lower still due to the inconvenience of having work done?

A relevant point - it’s been on the market for 2.5 years. It’s really quite fugly at the moment and although could be great (and in a great location) I think the current appearance is putting buyers off. Last time we asked no offers had been received.
Plus with the possibility of the market suffering over the next year, we want to be extra cautious. First time buyers too.

WIBU to put in a really low offer of £6something?

Are there any tactics for getting a lower offer accepted?

The seller has two other properties and bought the flat for £160k years and years ago so I feel like they may be in a position to accept a lower offer.

Help!

I would for sure put in a low offer in the £600ks. You can always increase it a little, but the seller needs a reality check. They may not accept, but there is no point paying more than it's worth when you have to spend so much on reno work. Someone may come along with a higher bid (eg a builder who can do the work cheaper) but if they haven't already, maybe not. Just don't get too attached, sounds like maybe they don't really want to sell...

So you reckon it's going to take 100k+ in renovation? Personally I wouldn't touch that with a barge pole.

I have similar, flat had been completely trashed and was only just mortgageable, flats of the same size in this building are generally £800-900. It was a wreck, the bathroom sinks had been smashed off, the shower ripped out, kitchen units pulled off the walls, doors ripped off kitchen cupboards.

Large areas of the original wood flooring were damaged, internal doors kicked through. It was just about liveable, but you did have to manually flush the only remaining toilet!

I have wanted to live in this building for ages but it was significantly above my price range, I bought the flat for £200k less than the same flats in the building due to the damage. Despite the fact that if I had managed money well everything could have been put right for about £30k.

£6xxK does sound more realistic, especially given it's been on the market so long, but unless the sellers are desperate to sell the property, they probably won't accept it, or they would have sold it by now.

As for how much refurbishment will cost and how necessary it is - are the kitchens and bathrooms in poor condition or just not to your taste for example? What level of finish are you looking at?

Sounds like they're holding out until someone with more money than sense comes along. Chances are that they own it outright and it's not costing them much to keep it so they're not in a rush to sell.

@contrmary no I don’t think it will take 100k on renovation - but I don’t want to just reduce the offer by the reno estimate, I feel it’s got to take into account the inconvenience and time, and the fact that the market is a bit unsure at the mo. Plus it’s been on the market for a long time.

@SimonJT thanks - sounds similar! Did you do a lot of the work yourself? £200k less is a good steal!

@RincewindsHat you’re right, there’s no harm in trying. I just don’t want to come across as not serious! It’s just making it low enough but not ridiculous!

@BarbaraofSeville you may well be right, they aren’t desperate to sell but the estate agent did hint at them getting fed up with it. They want to sell this one to buy a smaller and more accessible flat in the same area (this one is top floor with stairs and the vendor is getting older). Their other properties are elsewhere. The bathroom and kitchen is poor condition but could be used - it’s functional. But some bits broken eg from the kitchen cupboard etc. We could wait to do the work as it’s useable.

Just bear in mind that the seller has already priced the property knowing work needs to be done. Rightly, or wrongly, you're going to have a hard time convincing someone the should knock £200k off their expected proceeds.

just don’t want to come across as not serious! It’s just making it low enough but not ridiculous

Take the emotion out of it. You'd be stupid to pay potentially tens of thousands of pounds more than it's worth to spare their feelings or to make yourself look serious.

Decide what it's worth to you and pitch your offer along with the facts about similar properties that are available and the work that needs doing. If they don't accept, walk away. You must have oodles of choice with that budget.

What does the home report say it's worth?

@BarbaraofSeville you’re completely right! I think we can give clear reasons for a low offer with some facts and figures (costs to renovate, comparisons to other flats in the block and also in nearby blocks etc) if we sit down and think clearly about it.

@PregnantAndTiredMum are you in Scotland? I think the home report is a Scottish thing.

[quote Solaran]@contrmary no I don’t think it will take 100k on renovation - but I don’t want to just reduce the offer by the reno estimate, I feel it’s got to take into account the inconvenience and time, and the fact that the market is a bit unsure at the mo. Plus it’s been on the market for a long time.

@SimonJT thanks - sounds similar! Did you do a lot of the work yourself? £200k less is a good steal!

@RincewindsHat you’re right, there’s no harm in trying. I just don’t want to come across as not serious! It’s just making it low enough but not ridiculous![/quote]
The price does not have to ake into account any of what you have stated!
. Its not unusual to renovate and redecorate as you have suggested. And the work you list isn't majorly above the realm of normal in my mind.

If it's been on the market, he's in no hurry.

I think a 600k offer is going to be laughed at, probably piss them off and make them less likely to barter.

If you're serious show that you are and put in a reasonable offer of 700k. It matters not what he bought it for. That's his business. And tbh if he has waited 2.5 years, I'd be inclined to wait out longer as he's not going to earn a huge amount from the equity financially speaking at this time. So hanging on may mean higher prices longer term.

@Solaran ah ok, didn't realise it was only a scottish thing. Urgh that's harder then. If the other flats go for £700k ish then I'd offer that.

@SoloMummy thanks for the reply - and I understand often people will want to do work on a property. But when other flats sell for the same price in good condition (newer bathroom, kitchen, flooring etc) it doesn’t make sense to expect that for a property in need of work.

You wouldn’t pay the same for two identical properties where one had everything recently done and in good condition and the other needed everything replaced would you?

I didn’t do any of the work myself, I wouldn’t want to fit a kitchen, two bathrooms or restore original wood flooring.

It sounds like yours doesn’t actually need renovating, more than it just isn’t to your taste and you don’t like the position of the rooms.

[quote Solaran]@SoloMummy thanks for the reply - and I understand often people will want to do work on a property. But when other flats sell for the same price in good condition (newer bathroom, kitchen, flooring etc) it doesn’t make sense to expect that for a property in need of work.

You wouldn’t pay the same for two identical properties where one had everything recently done and in good condition and the other needed everything replaced would you?[/quote]
But as you've said it's usable on current state.

So the things you're opting are for aesthetic and personal taste.

Previous house prices are merely a snapshot in history. And don't actually bare any real relevance to your current situation.

I bought my property for half the price of a neighbour. My house needed renovating. Hers also did. The difference was the timing.

Op some of your tone reads like you’re entitled and if it’s been on the market for years it’s likely they have already had low ball offers and every reason under the sun why.

Make your offer based on what it’s worth to you and let the cards fall as they will.

@SoloMummy how far apart did you and your neighbour purchase your houses? This block of flats is reasonably large and there’s a few flats that have sold over the last couple of years so those sold prices are relevant IMO.

@Bluntness100 they haven’t had any offers as far as we are aware as we asked the agent - unless something has come in very recently.

It is useable but in a very bad state of repair - the original wooden flooring needs restoring (damaged and parts missing) and the kitchen has cupboard doors loose, damage to the worktop etc. It’s not just a case of it’s not to our taste - it objectively does need work. We’ve looked at other properties which look dated but well looked after and IMO this is different. The most recent sale was in January - a flat of slightly larger size but in a similar position for £800 and this was in better condition.

The vendor removed one room so it’s actually a bedroom down which I think is also relevant to the price.

600k?
I don't think you'll be taken seriously and if that was me I wouldn't accept any further offer from you on principle.
You need to get ballpark estimates for the work and reduce it by that amount - then you can prove to estate agents it's reasonable.
Or you just go in around the 700k mark.
You don't get money off for inconvenience. It's not a rental.
You have to decide how much you want the property.
(Eg new central heating -8K, new roof -11k new kitchen -6-8 k you have to be realistic. If you price a kitchen at -20k you'll look like you're at it)
It sounds like the vendor has no real pressing need to sell either.
Be realistic.

You wouldn’t pay the same for two identical properties where one had everything recently done and in good condition and the other needed everything replaced would you?

I’d pay a little less but not expect a huge discount because I don’t want new everything that I can’t justify ripping out and replacing. You can’t expect a discount for inconvenience. If the work’s going to cost £50k, then £700k would be a good starting point with an expectation of paying £725 ish. Don’t forget that you won’t be paying stamp duty, that’s a big saving on a property at that price.

Check the lease first, you can get a copy online from the land registry. There will almost inevitably be a ban on structural work, or at least without landlord’s consent. This could mean that you bought it and were then unable to do what you want, either without a big legal hassle, or at all. Worth checking before you spend anything on searches and legal fees.

@paellaandpies thank you - I’ll do some digging on that front - it’s a share of freehold flat in an and other flats in the estate have changed the layout (from looking at another flat in person as well as other sold properties online).

Main thing about flats is - how long is lease? Also you don't give sq.m. - how big is it? Location - i.e. London? What floor is it on and is there a lift? Is there off street parking and any communal garden? What are the service charges and ground rent? Does it have good transport links in the area? Could not value without this information.

@tara66 it’s a share of freehold period property in a purpose built estate of 2 and 3 bed flats. It’s on 999 year lease with 900+ remaining. The service charges are approx £200/month. It’s top floor (4th) with terrace, allocated parking and communal gardens. 90sq metres and Zone 2 London area. 5 mins walk from station (10 mins to London Bridge) and high street.

It's irrelevant how much they originally paid for it and depends on whether the kitchen, for example, is falling apart or just a bit dated and you fancy a new one. Even so, to offer 150k-200k under the asking price is insulting and I would accept no further offers from you if I were the seller.