To feel something was off about MIL’s response?

[ShuffleShuffleSpin]

Please help. I have no idea how to work through my feelings right now. Two days ago my MIL was visiting and she stirred my husband up emotionally. He often then takes out his frustrations on me by criticising me in front of her when this happens. He claims he is not aware he does it.

We were all getting out of the car in the rain to take my six year old to an event. Husband criticised me about Several issues related to how I was bringing children out of the car and I asked him firmly to please stop being rude. Our 6 year old son heard it and this upset my husband so we bickered for 1-2 minutes. MIL was walking my 6 year old across the parking lot in the rain when this happened. There was no shouting or anything like that, just a tense conversation. Later on we resolved it with a hug in front of the kids.
In the meantime, MIL came up to me about 20 min Later when I was alone with my toddler. First she asked if we were bickering about something she had done and said she felt guilty. I said no. She then started crying and said “please you can’t argue in front of the children! Your 6 year old must have been so anxious bc he was holding my hand so tightly.” I felt so horrible when she said that. I ended up saying we do generally try not to argue in front of the children. Sometimes it does happen. I also said DH can be quite critical and I have to find ways to create a boundary to the criticism. Sometimes I can walk away but sometimes it’s not an option due to children needing to be watched in a parking lot etc. She said she thinks I am over sensitive. She told me at the end of the conversation “it’s ok, I still think you are the girl for my son as I had a special feeling about you at the very beginning” - but I felt so judged by her. I could sense the emotions and motivations behind her words and actions and saw her eyes and it really felt like she thinks I am the problem 💯 and if I were just not sensitive DH life would be perfect. Anytime there is any issue with the kids I get that same feeling that she blames me.

Because of the kernel of truth - I do feel it’s not good to argue in front of kids - I feel so guilty. My husband and I have long since bounced back from our brief bickering but it’s this conversation and showed the kids all was well, but it is this conversation with MIL that is really weighing on me. I felt a heavy emotion and hollow shame from her. It felt like she put me down and sucked something out of me if that even makes sense. She is someone who lacks empathy and is a perfectionist who subtly criticises people. The conversation didn’t feel like a positive resolving moving forward kind of thing. I’ve had plenty of those with people. This felt like it sucked the joy out of me for several days. Can anyone please help me understand this? How do I deal with this hurt and shame from her?

In what way did she wind your DH up - what did she say to make him so cross and take it out on you?

I agree with other pp Op, your DH is the bigger problem. He is also setting a very poor example to your children being rude to you in front of them. In that situation, you are well within your rights to rebuke him for that and that in itself is a good example for them showing that you don't have to be a doormat. Your DH is an arse (and a bully).
As for your MIL, my response would go along the lines of something like... "when I want your opinion, I'll ask for it thank you very much". She sounds like a stirrer to me.

I would also recommend telling her that you intend to bring YOUR children up to be prepared for the REAL world.

Thank you so much to all of you. I honestly can’t thank you enough for your validation. Ellisandra I really appreciate your posts. Thank you for your summary - wow, seeing all of those painful incidents listed together really drives it home.

I felt so confused over MIL. I don’t even know why, really, and that is why I am so grateful. I thought she should be minding her own business or at the very least keep her comments to her son only. At the same time her crying felt really confusing to me. I have seen her cry at the drop of a hat when she wanted something from my husband before so I know she can be manipulative. Even knowing that I left that conversation with her feeling so confused.

All of you saying that she was out of line helps more than I can say. I doubted myself after MiL’s talk and it’s like she managed to project her feelings of guilt and worthlessness onto me or something. I knew she should have stayed out of it. I need to get stronger to be able to say that to her. Some days have been stronger and held my ground better.

I actually asked my son about it - whether he felt anything he wanted to talk to me about while he was waiting with his Nan. He said the only thing he felt was wishing we would all hurry up. 😂

I have felt like my husbands behaviour is abusive for a long time but I didn’t have the words for it. I kept googling “critical husband” and not coming up with much helpful stuff. I finally googled “criticism as abuse” a number of months ago and somehow it all clicked into place that his criticism was abusive. I have actually convinced him to do couples counselling with me with someone who specialises in Narcissism and emotional abuse. I told him the abuse has to stop. I am going to take it one day at a time. It’s actually around his family that things tend to flare up the most and the worst with him.

Thank you for mentioning Women’s Aid. I will look into that.

The important bit I took from this is that your DH treats you poorly in front of his mother

The important bit is he treats her poorly in front of his son. That's what needs to be addressed.

Also, so many of you mentioning she was out of line has helped me get in touch with the anger about her interference I should be feeling.

And - yes husband and I have had patterns of him criticising me and me defending myself. Or walking away to not take the bait. Or asking him to stop. So it is a bad pattern for the kids to see.

You should be googling “crying as abuse” as well. She is crying to avoid being told to get back in her box. She is being spineless and actually telling you to turn into herself. No thank you.

I just wanted to add my voice to those saying you are not the problem. Your DH and your MIL are the problem. Family arguments are perfectly normal and there's no reason to hide them from dcs.

What isn't normal is foryour MIL to chose to become involved, 'sum up' that you are damaging your children (incorrect) and then 'reassure' you that you are still the right girl for her son. That is appalling and very controlling behaviour - and frankly it is not her place to speak to you in this way or even feel this level of investment. Definitely speak to someone neutralso you can get some perspective on your DH's behaviour and put some emotional distance between you and your MIL.

(Presumably your MIL was very critical of your DH when he was growing up - it sounds like it may be a family trait.)

I don't think couples counselling is recommended if one of the partners is abusive.

Did she also speak to her son about bickering in front of the children - or was that all your fault?

I agree with all that pp have said about your DH being abusive.

*It’s actually around his family that things tend to flare up the most and the worst with him"

That's because he feels safer with them around - they're his enablers. Tell him that if he can't get break out of that pattern then contact with them will reduce (at least yours anyway).

You do not need to defend yourself to your MIL. She is wrong for interfering and if anyone is overly sensitive it is her. You are totally right to pull up you husband on his behaviour and also the way you dealt with making up. It is nothing to do with her she is being overly protective of her darling son. For me this sounds like a classic case of MIL syndrome. What I mean is the dynamics of the MIL /DIL relationship. It is all wrapped up in the bond she has with her son who in her eyes never does anything wrong. I definitely feel your pain. My MIL is very similar and my partner (of 24 years) acts very differently when his mother is around. He is critical of me too. I think it is because he is seeing me through his mother's eyes. I am very different from her: She is obsessed with the minutiae of domestic detail for example how to load the dishwasher, how to cook / clean. I just want these things done and out of the way and am slapdash. He is critical of how I do these things in front of her. But I will not stand for the criticism who ever he does it in front of. She has never really said a word against him. This is even when my daughter is around and when she was little. Another example is car journeys and directions. I always let her sit in the front with her son and he gets stressed finding a place. It often descends into shouting and swearing. Unlike your MIL she doesn't appear to be aware his behaviour is unacceptable in front of his daughter. She never tells him to shut up. She will never criticise his behaviour even though it is unacceptable sometimes. I find her relationship with him slightly creepy. I joke with my partner there is a bit of an Oedipus complex. Just be strong and try to explain to your partner how he behaves in front of her. Although just like your partner mine can't see it. I have now taken to trying not to be around her too much although it was more difficult when my daughter was a child. I don't see her so much now my daughter's older. But I do try to see the good in her; she can be very caring. Just thinking of another incident with my MIL. Partner was not involved. She turned up unannouced one day and I was helping my daughter with a clear out of her bedroom She was about 8. It was a massive tip with far too much old stuff. My daughter did not want to throw some stuff out, but had no space. My MIL basically told me I was horrendous for forcing me to throw some of my daughters things away. My parter, a bit of a hoarder, defended her to the hilt. It was nothing to do with her and made me very angry. I had to try not to show. It was kind of making me appear heartless and a bad mother. You have your ways and she has hers. you are different and how you deal with things is nothing to do with her. Be strong and DON'T feel bad.

Sorry a bit of a rant as it has been an issue with me for years.

Of course it's not great to argue in front of kids but your MIL is being ridiculous. She sounds very overdramatic and silly. Maybe She doesn't have anything else going on in her life.

I am astounded that you have found a counsellor who offers couples counselling and claims to specialise in Narcissism and emotional abuse. If this “expert” knew the first thing about either of those things, they would tell you that couples counselling was inappropriate, but they could take him on as an individual to work on himself, the actual problem.

Couples counselling is actually a tool for narcissistic emotional abusers. He’ll use it as a reason you should continue to put up with his abuse (because he’s trying! and he’ll learn all the buzz words to convince you that (a) it isn’t his fault, his family made him this way and (b) well actually you’re too sensitive too.

I would be VERY wary of counselling with him.

She's self important so she thinks her 'pearls of wisdom' are important to others. The giving you her blessing part is the worst bit. You're married to her son and have a child together and she thinks her opinion matters on whether she thinks you're good enough? What a joke.

My daughter's ex mil wanted her to put up with her abusive son's actions too. Anything to "keep the family together". I spoke to her after my daughter ended up in a refuge and I had to put the phone down on her in the end and block her. She said the most ridiculous things and it was clear that she couldn't cope with the reality of her son's behaviour. Much easier to blame the partner and sweep it under the rug.

I haven't read your other threads op, but if others on here are right, then it's worth looking up domestic abuse and see if any of it rings a bell.

I'm also surprised that any couples counselling would be done on the basis that one partner is a possible narcissist and where there is abuse. It's the number 1 principle that you can't do couples counselling with domestic abuse in the mix. The abusive person will frequently use the things they learn in those sessions to abuse even more effectively. Personally I would call Women's Aid or try to find a Freedom Course to attend.

You can't shield DCs from small arguments and bickering. They have to learn it's part of every day life.

You can shield them from vicious abusive rows by walking away. But this is not what was happening with you.

This is just the usual mysogynistic bullshit. Man gets critical and unpleasant, woman should have to put up with it in silence. My DH is a grumpy arse who is often over critical and I always defend myself. When it happened in front of my MIL or my DM they would shush me and tell me not to react, rather than defend me and tell him not to be a prick.
I do wonder what your MIL's DH was like. Putting up with it and not reacting may have been her default setting and she thinks that's whats best for you.

I don't think she is the real problem.

It is a very simplistic "solution" she has put forward, if he criticises you, don't be "sensitive"/object and all will be calm.

I think a person can receive this advice and just acknowledge whether this is something they want to do (probably not) and yet still be able to rub along side the person giving it.

The problem is that you are being constantly criticised by your husband.

@Ellisandra

There was a thread on here the other day, asking people if they tended to search posters previous posts, and if so - why. I was one that said that I sometimes did, when something told me that there was more to a story.

There’s a lot more to yours 😕
I’m not posting this to catch you out, @ShuffleShuffleSpin but because I don’t think it’s helpful for you to pay any attention to a poll based on a single incident. Honestly, though I posted above that your husband was the problem, I did also say your reaction to MIL was OTT.
Then I read a couple of other threads you made (which in itself tells me you’re second guessing your feelings more than normal, a potential sign of a is if relationships).

• your husband refused to show you affection in front of his sister, who was jealous (instead of telling her not to be so stupid). With-holding affection = abuse

• he bullied you into a third child that you didn’t want, creating 3 under 3 (that’s so hard!) with promises of help that he never came good on (surprise)

• this criticism you mention? It’s not only when MIL riles him up, it’s when he’s had a bad day at work too.you said he finds 5-10 things to criticise every night, including you not organising them fucking fridge items to his majesty’s liking

YOU ARE BEING ABUSED

Please, please speak to Women’s Aid

^ This

The problem is with your husband. Please seek support.

Based upon this post and previous threads. Your husband is abusive and your MIL is an abuse apologist! She is trying to place the blame firmly at your door, whilst her darling son should just be agreed with. This won't get better. You need to leave.

YANBU.
A couple of minutes of bickering between parents isn't going to harm your child. Adults argue sometimes, it is normal - you don't need to shield your child from all emotional discomfort or interpersonal discord. However, your DH needs to work on not being so critical in public, and your MIL needs to keep her nose out of your marriage.

Thank you all. I really am grateful for the kindness of strangers on the internet. This has been really validating and encouraging me to keep pressing on in getting support for myself. I think the reason I am a bit weak on boundaries and not seeing things clearly is because (1) I’ve been in this abusive relationship for almost 10 years now and (2) I grew up with a dad with massive unpredictable anger issues. He could be empathetic but he was also abusive with his anger. I learned to make other people’s feelings more important than mine bc that was the way to stay safe. I am highly in tune with what is good for other people and what they are feeling. I respect other people’s boundaries almost to an extreme and am probably too deferential. I need to become strong an learn what it means to love myself and have good boundaries for the sake of myself and my kids.

When I wrote this post I was aware of my husbands criticism problem and abuse problem - and truly was trying to sort out my confusion around my MIL and this recent episode with her. I think in part I probably fear her bc she has so much influence over my husband and can make my life difficult through causing tensions in my marriage. SIL is the main one who really does that but mil also has a lot of influence over him.

Re the bickering / having words - thanks for your feedback. I completely agree that it’s unhealthy for the children to see my husband criticise me. I have told him the same and said it was good for them to see me stand up for myself. Thanks for the reality check that it can be good for kids to see a real life relationship with arguments and then resolution. Ideal a healthy relationship of course. That’s a helpful perspective. In reality I’ve learned husbands criticising often has to do with his mood and emotions and him taking things out on me (or putting me down to feel better about himself) rather than anything I’ve done. I’ve told him as much. He’s made some changes but not enough.

Re marriage counselling the place I have signed us up to does a “marriage assessment” where they interview both parties separately and then do a plan of action. It often involves separate counselling sessions or separate support groups and sometimes they encourage an intervention such as separation. I have heard of people with narcissistic tendencies getting worse in couples counselling bc the spouse reveals a lot and then the narc can manipulate based on that. Ellisandra everting you have said has been extremely helpful and supportive. I am not 100 💯 certain whether DH is a narcissist or on that spectrum but obviously he is emotionally abusive and his family is too. I am not at the point where I am ready to call off the marriage without giving some of these options a go. We have three small children. I get it that separation and divorce make sense and I actually know the counsellors I am signed up for recommend leaving in certain situations for some couples. I am just not there yet. Getting there is a process I will have to really hash out for myself and my kids to see if it seems best.

Again thanks for the validation regarding my MiL. All of you ladies have given me such good support around this and let me kiss the self doubt goodbye.