AIBU to stop socialising with DS

[Onwardsandonwards]

I am desperate for help! We have a DS5 and a DD3. DS5 is very highly strung, loses his temper VV easily, is very rude to us when he doesn't get what he wants, flies off the handle at the tiniest thing. At home it is very hard to manage as you can imagine. We have honestly tried everything - empathy, ignoring, time out, shouting, bribery, blackmail...you get the message :) School have said he's fine there, just needs a little help managing relationships but nothing terrible.

Every holiday or social occasion has become, for want of a better word, embarrassing, and trust me I am ashamed to say that about my son. The way he loses his temper and shouts at me is quite shocking, and it has ruined the vast majority of holidays and parties of the years, and even when he is happy I am very on edge. It doesn't matter if we are in the nicest scenario in the world (we have been to amazing hotels, country houses etc) - if he doesn't have exact freedom to do exactly what he wants he gets furious.

I just got back from a weekend break with him and it was so stressful I vowed I wouldn't do it again. But equally, I want him to have all the opportunities in the world - holidays, swimming classes etc.

DD is very relaxed and obviously has her moments but nothing so dramatic.

Does anyone have a similar child and can anyone offer advice? Sometimes I think we should just stop going on days out / holidays and other times I think we should persevere and help him to learn better behaviour. It is a huge strain on our marriage. PLS HELP! Thank you!

We had this. I kept vowing we'd never go anywhere again. We kept going, he stopped being such a pain and now he's a pleasure to take out most of the time. Not sure if that helps

It does help! Enormously! Thank you :D Did you do anything particular to improve the situation or do you think he just grew out of it?

We had this. I had a few years when I went on hikes with them rather than zoos etc. (Or places so far away, the chances of running into someone we knew were minimal!) I refused to go to restaurants as it just wasn't worth the hassle. If people wanted to out for a meal with us, we had a picnic. When he was about 7, we started restaurants again but only if they had a dedicated play area or large outdoor space. It got better. We let the kids have a say in holidays and have done the same thing since he was 5 (now 10).
I also invited MIL to a lot of day trips so I wasn't outnumbered. I put the more docile child in swimming lessons and taught DS myself. He sounds quite overwhelmed. I don't want to say it must be, but my DS has ASD. The hotels etc might be amazing for you, but have you tried imagining it as if you were a 5 year old. Would it still be amazing?

I've been in a similar situation. My kids are adopted and DS has always had a lot more anxiety around going out than DD. As a result, he would often have tantrums, kick things, refuse to get in or out of the car, shout, swear loudly and lots of other behaviours that made going anywhere a challenge.

After months of managing it the totally wrong way (for him), by punishing the bad behaviour and making him go on lots more outings he hated, we realised we had to stop making him go out as much. We used rewards for him getting ready and getting in the car, more rewards for behaving while out and tried to make the outings less frequent and to familiar places. Over time things improved. We made sure DD didn't miss out by one of us taking her out on her own.

No real ideas to help you apart from to say I know what it's like.

@Onwardsandonwards

It does help! Enormously! Thank you :D Did you do anything particular to improve the situation or do you think he just grew out of it?

Nope, praised when he was good, reprimanded bad behaviour. It seemed to work

Haha the chance of running into someone you knew was minimal - absolutely!!!!

I hear you on the overwhelmed bit...it's definitely something to consider. The thing is, he is in school and has been to two nurseries which are all excellent and ASD has never been mentioned. I even mentioned it to one of the nursery teachers and she said absolutely not.

Btw we are absolutely not innocent. We are so wound up by it that we overreact. If you say "DS, don't touch that it's delicate" he will immediately touch it and then I go crazy. It just feels so relentless.

I do see your point about swimming - I could teach him swimming football music etc just as well, and for free!

@ThisIsNotARealAvo

I've been in a similar situation. My kids are adopted and DS has always had a lot more anxiety around going out than DD. As a result, he would often have tantrums, kick things, refuse to get in or out of the car, shout, swear loudly and lots of other behaviours that made going anywhere a challenge.

After months of managing it the totally wrong way (for him), by punishing the bad behaviour and making him go on lots more outings he hated, we realised we had to stop making him go out as much. We used rewards for him getting ready and getting in the car, more rewards for behaving while out and tried to make the outings less frequent and to familiar places. Over time things improved. We made sure DD didn't miss out by one of us taking her out on her own.

No real ideas to help you apart from to say I know what it's like.

Thank you - that's really helpful. The swearing - oh gosh we had that phase! Great that it improved - well done :D

I would give him a reminder in the car.

We are going X place, now don’t ask for sweets and if you shout or scream at me we are leaving. I will get you a drink and we’ll have ice cream on the way home if you behave nicely.

We’ve only left one place once!

Giving them something to hen they head home really works - it could be an ice lolly to choosing a pudding - whatever works for him

I know you say you've tried everything but you didn't mention praise - are you giving praise when he IS being quiet and well behaved? My oldest went through a phase of this. We used to give him a warning eg at a restaurant, to sit nicely and behave and if he didn't one of us would immediately take him outside, tell him he could go back in when he could behave nicely again, and sit in silence with him until he calmed down. Back in, don't be afraid to do it several times, completely calmly. Ours quickly got the message that it got a bit boring to be naughty! Also take quiet things to do - drawing stuff and suitable card games were always in my bag!

if he doesn't have exact freedom to do exactly what he wants he gets furious

What is it that he wants to do/would do?

I do agree with Bereft that he doesn't seem to agree with you on what constitutes a fun holiday! Some children can just slot into adult life, but many can't (whether because of SN, sensitivity, personality or whatever). It doesn't mean you're doomed to no holidays ever - just that you might need to adjust your expectations and acclimatise him to them gradually.

It always feels more stressful when you've just experienced a shit time - I always swear off of ever taking mine away again the day we come back (admittedly they have SEN and are a nightmare!).

But after a few days I realise it wasn't all bad and I see that there were some wins and there were also lots of learning points and things I'd do differently next time. Identifying their triggers and then navigating those can help massively!

and if he didn't one of us would immediately take him outside, tell him he could go back in when he could behave nicely again,
But that absolutely does not work if they don't want to be there in the first place! DS considered drawing stuff etc torture (we now know why) so he would much rather be taken out than have to sit quietly.

And yes, agree with saving dessert/ice cream for leaving somewhere. Give it at lunch time and your bargaining chip has already been eaten!

We have been through this phase too. For 18 months we only used our national trust cards and had a Merlin pass. As we hadn’t paid for admission or travelled far, we would immediately leave and get back in the car. He learnt and it worked.

Just because he behaves well at school and a nursery teacher has said absolutely not when you raised ASD, does not mean he does not have it or some other diagnosable condition. DC can often present very differently in different settings and even the best teacher in the world cannot diagnose lack of a condition.

I feel your pain! My DS is similar. He was the most angelic baby but from the age of 1 became so difficult. He never grew out of the toddler tantrums. He's very highly strung, very sensitive, it can take something small for him to have a meltdown and the meltdowns can last for ages. He has embarrassed me in public many times! It's exhausting. We've tried everything too. Punishing or getting angry doesn't help much. It's like pouring petrol on to a fire. Despite his often difficult nature he's generally very happy, funny, sweet and good company. It's just difficult to predict when he'll kick off. I don't know if I have any advice but wanted to empathise. All I can say to encourage you is that my DS is getting better. He's 7 now and we've actually gone several days without a tantrum. He's definitely, definitely improving as the years go by. His meltdowns are generally (not always!) short lived now rather than lasting an hour. People always suggest ASD or ADHD when you mention these kinds of behaviours but I've done lots of research and he doesn't really tick any of the boxes (apart from the meltdowns). A doctor told me he wasn't certain he didn't have those conditions. I think he's just very sensitive. I try to anticipate the triggers for the bad behaviour. If he's tired or hungry his behaviour will be awful so I keep him well fed and get him to bed early. If we're at a cafe/restaurant I WILL let him play on my phone or his Nintendo. I'm sure lots of people will view this as terrible parenting but I just do what it takes. Don't worry OP, I'm sure your DS will improve over time. Some children are just like this and cant seem to manage their emotions. I've just bought the book The Explosive Child. I haven't started reading it yet but it got excellent reviews. I'm very optimistic it will have some good tips for diffusing situations before they become full blown tantrums.

I had this with my DS when he was younger. Like a previous poster my DS is also adopted.

He would get overwhelmed on days out , shopping trips and holidays.

We slowly realised that he couldn't cope with not knowing exactly where we were going, what it would be like , what he would be able to do there , what he could eat , buy , play with etc.

We learned to sit him down and discuss what the plans for the day were and ask him if there was anything he wanted to do , buy , play with etc. We would then produce a basic itinerary and share it with him telling him what we were going to be doing and in what order. It really helped.

On holidays we made sure that we did a tour around the area we were in , showing him everything there was to do etc before we even unpacked.

He grew out of it when he got to about 11 or 12 but then everything became about food as it does with most teenagers. We have to keep him supplied with constant snacks even now at 14 years old!

PDA is a type of autism that doesn't fit the normal stereotypes; might be worth looking up.

Though he may also just grow out of it. It does sound like he needs a quieter life though. No point in all those experiences if he can't cope with it and nobody enjoys them.

OP, try looking up ODD on the computer.
Also look for a book called The Explosive Child.
I worked with children like this for many years but only recently came across this book recommended by Mumsnetters on here. Thanks ladies 💐. I have recommended it loads since it is bloody brilliant.
Also, please don't believe that a teacher can say that your child has no SN because it is not apparent at school as a pp said it is perfectly possible for this to be noticed in one or two settings and not in others.

Ahhh such huge thanks to everyone! I listened to Dr Greene (explosive child) podcast last night and I.Love.Him! Of course there is never a silver bullet, but our approach of bribing/blackmailing just obviously doesn't work. I also looked up PDA and it was really interesting. Whether or not DS actually has that, they advice was so useful and very appropriate to him. THANK YOU MN!

My Ds almost 8 was exactly the same. He has got better to the point I can take him almost anywhere. He has diagnosis of DLD. They suspected autism when he was younger. I spent many a time sitting inside the car outside venues/events with him whilst his dad and older brother where inside enjoying themselves. We still have times when he can't cope where he is but instead of acting out he will tell us he wants to go home. It has taken a lot to get to this point tho

@SallyWD

I feel your pain! My DS is similar. He was the most angelic baby but from the age of 1 became so difficult. He never grew out of the toddler tantrums. He's very highly strung, very sensitive, it can take something small for him to have a meltdown and the meltdowns can last for ages. He has embarrassed me in public many times! It's exhausting. We've tried everything too. Punishing or getting angry doesn't help much. It's like pouring petrol on to a fire. Despite his often difficult nature he's generally very happy, funny, sweet and good company. It's just difficult to predict when he'll kick off. I don't know if I have any advice but wanted to empathise. All I can say to encourage you is that my DS is getting better. He's 7 now and we've actually gone several days without a tantrum. He's definitely, definitely improving as the years go by. His meltdowns are generally (not always!) short lived now rather than lasting an hour. People always suggest ASD or ADHD when you mention these kinds of behaviours but I've done lots of research and he doesn't really tick any of the boxes (apart from the meltdowns). A doctor told me he wasn't certain he didn't have those conditions. I think he's just very sensitive. I try to anticipate the triggers for the bad behaviour. If he's tired or hungry his behaviour will be awful so I keep him well fed and get him to bed early. If we're at a cafe/restaurant I WILL let him play on my phone or his Nintendo. I'm sure lots of people will view this as terrible parenting but I just do what it takes. Don't worry OP, I'm sure your DS will improve over time. Some children are just like this and cant seem to manage their emotions. I've just bought the book The Explosive Child. I haven't started reading it yet but it got excellent reviews. I'm very optimistic it will have some good tips for diffusing situations before they become full blown tantrums.

This sounds just like my son! At his worst, I did the Triple P parenting programme and had the dubious satisfaction of learning I was already using all the best practice methods. They just didn’t work for my son. Nothing worked except time. Somewhere around his 8th birthday he began to rapidly develop emotional regulation. He is approaching 9 now and he had an explosive hissy fit tonight, which was the first one in 2 months. They used to be 2-3 times a day. He is a great kid who just had a time delay on being able to manage his emotions.

@TheKrakening3 - right, my DS is so clever, loving, funny, adventurous, but that delay in emotional regulation is so significant. V happy to hear that things improved so much! x