AIBU to expect it to be unpaid...

[Teddy275]

Co-worker spends the summer holidays in Spain at her parents apartment. Obviously the only cost to her is flights which she booked (outbound) in June. Normally she would go for 3/4 weeks out of the 6 but, due to a special birthday, she is there the full 6 weeks this time. She flew out on a single ticket as wasn't sure when to book her return but has now arranged (and booked) to fly back the day before we are due to start back at work in September. On the day she flew out (just hours before she boarded) they announced change in guidelines re:self quarantine upon return.
She has been very smug about this on social media, saying how lovely it's going to be to not have to come straight back to work and get extended time off etc. Thing is, if the self quarantine rules are still in place, it's going to make a lot of peoples job a lot more difficult without her around for two weeks and she is going to miss a lot of information and training that would be detrimental to our team and will need to be caught up again using somebody else's time.
I'll be honest and say that I haven't really any awareness of what the situation is regarding changing flights or refunds in this scenario but am I (and other co-workers) being unreasonable to feel that this could have been avoided, she booked the return date knowing full well what would happen, there's plenty of time to now amend the return date and that if she does require time off it should be unpaid? Her excuse was that the return date she chose was a lot cheaper.
Our manager is looking into it all (she hasn't officially been informed of this yet, just saw the same social media as we did) and once co-worker got wind of this she's been kicking up a right storm about it, threatening unions and all sorts 🙄. I'd perhaps have more sympathy if it was all booked pre-pandemic, and, who knows where things will be in a months time, but still....

I agree with you. I presume you work in education, with a set return to work date? Will need to just wait and see what happens re quarantine but absolutely it should be unpaid.

If this happens to a lot of people they will have to be paid if the government are telling people to quarantine they need to be paid. Otherwise people will simply go to work anyway, and spread it about. (Assuming the have it of course)
Really really unfair but I don’t know what else to say.
In your colleague’s case I think she should come back two weeks earlier at quarantine at home, but unless there is some way of forcing her I bet she won’t.

She has the option of booking another ticket for earlier so that she can quarantine and go back to work on time even if this means missing the special birthday day itself. They'll have plenty of opportunity to go out for nice meals while she's still there for 3-4 weeks.

This is not the same as people who've been caught out on unfortunately timed 1 or 2 weeks holidays that were often booked last year and people were faced with the choice of going or losing thousands of pounds.

She should of course come back two weeks earlier than planned to quarantine.
Perhaps she won't have any choice eventually as all flights to and from spain may stop if theres noone flying.

In my workplace (local government) people who were caught out by the rule change have to make up the 2 week quarantine with a combination of WFH if possible, annual leave/TOIL/flexi if not, and unpaid leave if they don’t have enough of the former to cover it. For those flying out after the 25th they have to take annual leave or unpaid leave. She might get a shock.

I can't believe anyone would be so stupid to post all over social media!

Definitely should be made to take it unpaid, in fact it should be a disciplinary should she not even try to change her flights! Outrageous!

I'm a teacher and am due to go away to a caravan sight the last week of the hols and even I'm tempted to try and rearrange just in case! And I'm only going up the road!

I think it's a bit unfair to have your holiday cut short in another place, but agree that the leave should be unpaid. Unless she can feasibly do her job from home - I don't see why other people should have to pick up the slack.

If she's a teacher, I think it's very unfair on her colleagues and think it's ridiculous that you would post on social media about it! I wouldn't mind if she hadn't gloated, but if she was in my department and she gloated about being off, knowing the amount of work it would cause for me, I would be definitely saying it was unpaid. If anything it just makes her a horrible person - regardless of the laws!

If she's now threatening unions, I would ensure you've screenshotted her comment on facebook and contacted HR, but it sounds like you're just her colleague who will have to pick up all the work, not necessarily her manager.

I suppose I personally think it's ridiculous to go to another country in the current state that the world is in, as these sorts of things were bound to happen - but that's just my personal opinion.

I'll assume you are in education (can't think of any other profession where you can go away for 6 weeks?)

Most schools put policies in place about trips / quarantines. I'd be very surprised if this woman gets her quarantine paid

I agree. My holiday was booked pre covid. Pre us knowing this was pandemic.

I was worried about going as return date was end of August and I'd have to self isolate when travel returned.

I was hoping it was cancelled as I wasn't comfortable with travel anyway.

It was!

But there's no way I'd book to go away currently with dates crossing over possible quarantine. This is why I took the refund rather than the offer to re book something else.

Irritating of her. I don’t think she should be getting extra paid time off to isolate. Otherwise fortnight’s in Spain will result in a buy one get one free on annual leave. Is it a job she could do remotely?

Where I work, you can have the quarantine period as paid leave if the holiday was booked before lockdown, but it has to be unpaid (or use annual leave) if the holiday was booked after lockdown. I think that policy is fair.

If it is education, then with some schools I would fully expect her to be allowed to sit at home on full pay. I have had some exposure to how some schools have managed these situations and some (usually council maintained ) have acceded to outrages demands from staff...ie "WFH" when in reality they can't !

As for splathering it across social media..yes they do it as they are so used to behaving like this and yes...when they can't get what they want they threaten "the union"

I saw one schools teachers a bit like this. Got academies and holy hell...did they come into the real world.

So yes..OP. What you are seeing is outrageous but not unusual and lots of other schools (if education you are referring to) will still have teachers merrily flying off to Spain etc the last two weeks of holidays and expect two weeks off for quarantine

Oh..the gift has confirmed that no one is entitled to be paid for quarantine.

I work at an overseas private school. My employer has warned us all that if we choose to travel during this time for vacation, we will need to make allowances for quarantine in our plans. Basically, we should plan to be back 14 days before we start.

Any missed work will be unpaid and anything longer than a week or so (exceptional circumstances will be considered) will be grounds for termination. I've already had colleagues who have been terminated and others who are in danger of being terminated as they can't get back.

Honestly, I understand the desire for vacation (our holidays are term time only) but I don't have much sympathy for people choosing to travel abroad. Everyone knows there's a pandemic and rules change very quickly. She needs to come back early or accept the consequences (unpaid leave).

A lot can happen in 6 weeks. I wouldn’t be surprised if the rules had changed again by then.

I think it should be unpaid leave.

Yes unpaid leave, she has the option to return early.

The direction of travel is only going one way for Spain re infection rate, things are likely to be much worse in 2-3 weeks time not better!

I would inform her of your decision that will give her the opportunity to alter her plans if she wants to.

I work at a London state school and our headteacher advised us in writing that if we knowingly booked a holiday to a country that might be on the quarantine list we should either leave enough time to isolate before term starts or we would have to take it as unpaid leave. I think this is perfectly fair.

@moose62 it is reasonable but how do you define a country that might be on the quarantine list?

Definitely unpaid, she either makes the decision and sacrifices coming back two weeks prior to returning or sacrifices her pay? She's obviously done it on purpose to twist the system and get more holiday and less time at work. Disgusting really.

Of course it should be unpaid. Anyone silly enough to fly during a pandemic now has to face the consequences of that decision.

She has been very smug about this on social media, saying how lovely it's going to be to not have to come straight back to work and get extended time off etc

That was a monumentally stupid thing to do. I hope your manager has kept a screenshot of this. Where I work something like this would probably involve a verbal or written warning.

If this person works in a school, and God forbid if she is a teacher, she should know better than to post such stuff on social media.

I would have some sympathy with her if it was a two week holiday at the end of August book pre-pandemic. But she's just got to change her flight home and will still have a four week break. She is being completely unreasonable unless there are other factors we're unaware of and the birthday doesn't count because you don't have to celebrate it on the day.

She should change her return flight and self-isolate in her own time.

She's a CF expecting to be paid for an absence which is totally avoidable.

In Scotland many teachers and school staff have lost a week’s holiday as we are going back early (it is going to be granted elsewhere in the year). If anyone had a holiday booked for that last week PRE COVID then that, and any quarantine period, will be covered by the school. I wouldn’t be happy if a colleague booked a holiday after March knowing that they could be subject to a quarantine period. In my opinion all holidays abroad should be cancelled this year anyway! How on earth are we going to contain this virus with people flying off all over the place...madness.

If it is education, then with some schools I would fully expect her to be allowed to sit at home on full pay. I have had some exposure to how some schools have managed these situations and some (usually council maintained ) have acceded to outrages demands from staff

normalmum I'm not sure what you mean. LA's (council) have put in place agreed policies around education staff with holidays booked which return just before school starts. Much as with other jobs, dependent on when the holiday was booked and guidance linked to the destination.
Fair to everyone to follow the agreed council policy.