to civilly ask you to use your cars less

[mosquitofeast]

My last thread was deleted because I was not being "civil" enough, I don't actually think it is a subject there is much room for civility in, but I will try!

My last post was to try and answer some questions about me. Here they are

I think I have answered these.

No I am not a strict vegetarian. I don't buy milk or dairy, but eat it in other peoples houses,

no I don't fly,

foodmiles, well, I take them into consideration, but they are not the only indicator of the environmental impact of food. Tomatoes grown in a heated greenhouse 2 miles away might have more environmental impact than tomatoes grown outside in Spain, and flown in.

I have 2 adopted children, 1 is an adult no longer living at home I currently have 3 foster children, but that is likely to change this week

Yes I have a pet, it came with one of the adopted children.

No I don't smoke

In all honesty, I rarely use my car, but I feel like going for a pointless drive just because you're annoyingly AF.

@cologne4711

Dear Mumsnet why on earth was the previous thread deleted?

We really DO need a comprehensive change to our car centric culture - for so many reasons but environment and health are right up there.

It really isn't that controversial. The government has issued a consultation on more cyclist and pedestrian-friendly streets only today with accompanying updates to the Highway Code.

He/she was very verbally aggressive to various posters.

He/she also stated that driving 2 miles is as bad as slavery, so we know that he/she feels a slaves life in his/her mind is worth very little.

Didn't see the previous thread so can't comment on that. This a really odd thread though.

I use my car a couple of times a week at the moment and don't fly because I have no desire to.

Yet oddly enough I don't feel I'm more virtuous or a better person than people who do, nor do I feel the need to start a thread about it.

What exactly is the point you're trying to make OP?

And why are you trying to answer questions about yourself? Do you really think anyone on here actually cares?

@ToffeePennie

How am I supposed to use my car less? I use it for work (where I have to carry heavy supplies to different houses) and to take my children to their grandparents (there is no bus that goes that far out) and I live rurally, our most local shops are at least 30 mins walk away.

do you ever walk to the shop?

Saying you're a strict vegetarian but you eat it in other peoples houses, is as shitty as me saying I don't drive my car on short journeys but I do if I'm driving someone else's

Get your eco credentials sorted and come back when you are in a position to preach.

Otherwise you will continue to come across as a condescending, uneducated, hypocritical fool.

Touching a nerve, judging by some of the responses! If every one of your car journeys is necessary, then the OP isn’t talking about you. If you feel like their posts DO apply to you, and it makes you feel uncomfortable and defensive, think about why.

The issue isn’t that people think there’s no need to reduce car use. It was the incredibly hypocritical way OP went about it. Despite the obvious shortcomings in her own life when it comes to protecting the environment, she has honed in on this specific issue with intense hostility, and shown no appreciation for the limitations placed on people’s lives - particularly the fact that adults are expected to work full time, maintain a house, raise children, exercise, socialise and the rest of it in 24 hours a day. Most people’s lives are so busy that fitting in a couple of hours a day to walk journeys of 2 miles isn’t feasible. But instead of focusing on the structural issues which create this problem (lack of public transport facilities / inadequate minimum wage / poor childcare options / insufficient public footpaths / suburban deserts with no local shops / etc., OP had chosen to frame it as an issue or personal selfishness and moral failing. And in my opinion, if you’re going to take that attitude then your own life better be squeaky clean before you have any justification for judging someone else. Which is why I ask what right OP has to criticise car use when she has admitted she isn’t vegan. I can think of far better justifications for using a car for a 2 mile journey than I can for eating meat and dairy.

Just 100 companies are responsible for 71% of global pollution. People can and should do what’s possible to reduce their own impact, but it’s a drop in the water compared to what needs to be done by governments from a regulatory point of view. OP’s pet passion is clearly cars, but acting as though this is the decisive factor in climate change and berating people for not doing their bit to drive less is ignorant and myopic. OP would be far better channelling her energies into supporting organisations lobbying governments for global regulatory change - but then, that wouldn’t give her the bun fight she is clearly actually after, would it?

@FourPlasticRings Ah, it's OK OP. There's a false logic prevalent among mumsnetters that if you don't do everything perfectly and live the life of a monk on a cliff somewhere then you may as well not bother trying to reduce your negative impact on the planet at all. I came across it most recently when someone used it to justify why they keep their hot tub on 24/7. And heaven forbid you be anything other than supportive about that.

^^This. I despair sometimes.

Great Thunberg: "You need to be more conscious of your environmental impact, due to the climate crisis."

MN: "Oh, so you literally only eat GRASS, do you? And exhale pure oxygen?? Lol u stop breathing u hypocrite and I'll stop eating Argentinean tomahawk steaks for breakfast every morning."

(For the benefit of the tediously literal minded, the above is a lighthearted example, I am not comparing either the OP or myself to Greta Thunberg.)

Lots of people have given reasons why, FOR THEIR OWN CIRCUMSTANCES they may sometimes need to do short car journeys. It doesnt mean they never walk anywhere and it doesnt mean they dont do anything about the environment.
If someone else never needs to do short journeys in the car, yay, good for them.....but not everyone has the same life.

@cologne4711

Dear Mumsnet why on earth was the previous thread deleted?

We really DO need a comprehensive change to our car centric culture - for so many reasons but environment and health are right up there.

It really isn't that controversial. The government has issued a consultation on more cyclist and pedestrian-friendly streets only today with accompanying updates to the Highway Code.

I am told I wasn't being civil enough. I am trying to be civil now. There was about 12 pages on the last thread, but it was taken down before I had even finished reading page 5, so I am not sure what was on most of it

Of course OP, if you could please contact my local authority and ask them to reinstate our bus service to and from our village I will be right on it.

OP, by eating both meat and dairy you are supporting several things, you’re paying someone to torture and then murder an animal. You’re paying for deforestation, you’re also contributing to a lack of food as you would rather huge areas of land were used to feed livestock when a smaller area could feed a greater number of people.

If someone had any concerns about the environment they wouldn’t eat meat or dairy. Just as if people valued animal welfare they wouldn’t do it either.

Well since you ask so nicely..........

As if people are going to use their cars less because some stranger on MN tells them to. I use mine for work, shopping etc and that won't be changing anytime soon. It's not like I go out driving for the sheer hell of it, I go out when I need to. Could I walk or take public transport? I guess yes sometimes I could but I won't because I have a car!!

Jeez these posts really annoy me, just like the bloody annoying ones on fb earlier in lockdown when people seemed to love ending their posts with stay safe, stay at home. Just Fuck off.....I know how to be a decent civilised human being, don't need some do good-er on fb telling me what to do.

And breathe.....

@LadyMacbethWasMisunderstood

No. You cannot ask this of other people. You live your life in line with your conscience. So long as other people live within the law then they should be permitted to live in accordance with their conscience; without some random asking them to do or not do certain things.

Then maybe the law needs to be changed faster?

To clarify I have zero problem with encouraging people to use cars less. I am an environmental professional and could not be more in favour of reducing car use.

What I object to is the aggressive and nasty way in which this poster has taken it upon herself to talk to people. It’s the worst kind of preaching that has the opposite effect intended and adds to the argument that environmental activists are all looneys.

The hypocrisy and ignorance shown by the OP is staggering.

@mosquitofeast
It was basically 12 pages of people telling you that you were rude and hypocritical.
Hope that helps?

Drive to work in under 15 mins. Walk, bus, then walk - taking nearly an hour. I know which I choose!

I'll be sure to run every car journey I make by you first OP. Since you've anointed yourself as in charge of defining "reasonable" car use.

Nah I need my car for work, taking the kids to school, and going shopping

I just added to the statistics, drove a round trip of about 3 miles as I nipped into Superdrug to buy shampoo. Couldn’t be bothered walking when the car was parked up outside my house.

And I left my eldest babysitting her sister so I didn’t want to be longer than necessary.

OP no you're not being unreasonable. None of us are perfect, we all have our reasons for doing a lot of the things that we do, however, we are also all capable of at least considering whether we can reduce our environmental impact. It may be using the car less/sharing, it may be up cycling or recycling more, turning off power switches etc... but if you never think about these things then you rarely implement them!

Well unfortunately I cancel out all your good deeds and intentions -

Drive everywhere
Fly regularly
Eat loads of meats, eggs, milk- don’t look where they come from, just pick up the cheapest.
Eat lots of out of season fruit/veg
Have lots of pets
Haven’t adopted any children

@mbosnz

I think perhaps you overestimate the amount of concern utter strangers should have for your life and your health. Or how much they should factor that into their decision making processes.

its not just my life and my health though is it? its the life and health of everyone on the planet, now and in the future

I’ll use my car less when we no longer have to wear face nappies on public transport.

Of course it’s not going to be possible for most people to ditch their cars, but the 50% of journeys stay the OP posted in her original thread IS shocking

Is it shocking? How do you know without knowing what the stats actually say? Do they even break those journeys down by type/reason? Link it to a campaign for better transport?

Understanding the answers to those questions would be far more likely to identify scope to reduce car travel (if that is the objective) than GF rants that anyone driving a car a short distance is no better than a slave trader.

Since short trips are disproportionately women this "short trip" phenomenon is routinely trotted out to bash women as well.

The last thread was based on the recently released statistic that 50% of car journeys were less than 2 miles, and most of them were unnecessary

I saw your thread before it was deleted, so I'm aware of the statistic you quoted. But who gets to define 'unnecessary': you?

Aside from anything else, 2 miles is a 30-40 minute walk. It's hardly popping round the corner so suggesting that people should be expected to walk up to 4 miles (there and back) to save a bit of mileage is ridiculous.