to wonder why the people I know who are most enraged about past slavery are perfectly happy to benefit from modern slavery?

[mosquitofeast]

For background, I work on a project reintroducing freed child slaves into education.

There are thousands of slaves in UK, many of them children. The worst industry by far is the cannabis growing industry, and no, I don't think legalising it will help. How could legally grown cannabis compete in price with cannabis grown by unpaid slaves? Don't buy cannabis. You are supporting child slavery, possibly within a few miles of where you are sitting right now.

The sex worker industry relies totally on trafficked woman and children, and slavery, and yet its ok to go on an BLM march in the morning, and a stag do using a company invested in people trafficking in the evening?

Nail bars and clothing factories, even some illegal UK ones. Don't buy counterfeits. Simples.

(And the Chinese Uighurs need a whole thread on their own.)

So much anger and outrage and blame about historic slavery, why can't that be funnelled into taking a stand against the slavery that thousands of people are experiencing in the UK today?

Because modern slavery is invisible. Is in not in your face. It is hidden.
Not all nail bars or clothes factories have slaves and the suggestion is ridiculous. If I buy a winter coat how do I know if it was made by slaves? I can’t trace it back to its origin all the way to Bangladesh for example, and I need a winter coat so I am buying it.
I can’t go to a nail salon and start accusing the manager of using slaves when it turns out to be an unfounded, serious accusation. Then I’m in trouble.
I am sure not all cannabis is grown by slaves and the recreational users are not going to grill their dealer under torture to fess up about the origin of the stuff they are selling.
Not all prostitutes are slaves. Some of them decide that this is what they want to do for a while.
It is not up to individual members of society to do these private investigations. It is good that light is shed on these problems but your average member of society is not going to stop using these services just because you assume that certain products are made by slaves.

How could legally grown cannabis compete in price with cannabis grown by unpaid slaves?

The overheads for criminal gangs are not primarily labour costs, but I agree people are too quick to say that legalisation would definitely result in cheaper cannabis. I think there are some studies being done in Canada and the US on this.

Although if cannabis were legalised, there would at least be an option for people to buy 'cruelty free' cannabis which would surely be better than the situation we have now?

@ZeldalovesLink

Separate issues. Of course people should be enraged about modern slavery, and I’m impressed by the work you do. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t also be aware of ‘past slavery’ - which isn’t really ‘past’ after all, bedside the repercussions of that slavery are still being played out today and directly impacting people’s lives.

You know, I don't think it is that separate, if you are demanding reparations for past slavery (to be paid by others) whilst financially benefiting from current slavery. Both are important, but it does seem that some talk the talk without walking that walk.

@Iwalkinmyclothing

How could legally grown cannabis compete in price with cannabis grown by unpaid slaves?

The overheads for criminal gangs are not primarily labour costs, but I agree people are too quick to say that legalisation would definitely result in cheaper cannabis. I think there are some studies being done in Canada and the US on this.

Although if cannabis were legalised, there would at least be an option for people to buy 'cruelty free' cannabis which would surely be better than the situation we have now?

Clothes are legal.

Much of it is made in sweat shops powered by the forced labour of slaves.

Legal changes nothing - except making it more widespread and using more slaves to meet greater demand.

The BLM cult that encourages rioting has apparently been donated a $Billion are they using this do help slaves of today? If not why not?

@totalpeas22

The BLM cult that encourages rioting has apparently been donated a $Billion are they using this do help slaves of today? If not why not?

That's not "BLM", which originally was just a protest and awareness movement - a lot of the trouble is caused by obnoxious privileged white rioters - who very racistly try to disguise themselves as black protestors when committing criminal acts.

Those anarchists are a disgrace. A racist disgrace. There was nothing wrong with the original BLM.

@totalpeas22

The BLM cult that encourages rioting has apparently been donated a $Billion are they using this do help slaves of today? If not why not?

Maybe you should get your facts straight before posting! BLM have not encouraged rioting.

It's quite clear by the response here that most people do not understand what the BLM movement was for. It's not about focusing on past slavery, it's the simple fact that after slavery officially ended many years ago, the act is still continuing. Black people are still being treated less than by some NOT ALL white people in countries where you expect inclusion. You only need to watch some youtube videos to show how severe racism is in this day and age but we like to pretend it's not happening and say people are complaining about things that can't be changed. How do you say that to families that has lost loved ones due to this act in 2020 alone?

I will actively support any movement that supports an end to any form of slavery, especially one towards children regardless of their race and background. Human Being should be treated as Human Being regardless but saying BLM focuses on historical event is just an uneducated statement to be honest.

Share more about your work so those of us interested in Human Equality can support this.

HeLa1 I thought of The Good Place as well! While there may be "no need to support slavery", it is difficult to avoid slavery and similar harmful labour practices.

Like I'd patched skirts to the point of falling apart and needed affordable replacements while charity shops were closed. I used a site recommended by MoneySavingExpert newsletter that flogs end-of-season leftovers. I've no idea what the brands are (tags are all gone) or the rest of the supply chain is. Should I feel bad about that, that there is a possibility of something out of my knowledge and control?

While discussing some of the hypocrisy particularly in those making money from their ethics on one side while being detrimental in the same area can be useful, I don't think pointing fingers at other movements working on other horrible things helps anything.

BLM protest current conditions faced by many black Americans,
who are the descendants of past slaves, kidnapped, tortured, raped and murdered

The don't protest about conditions faced by Pakistanis or other races, who also aren't obliged to join BLM marches

If someone protests about every evil injustice, they would have not enough hours in the day

So protesting about what most concerns you personally, does not mean you agree with all the things you can't protest about

e.g. Marching to commemorate the Holocaust doesn't mean you don't care about other acts of genocide

@PicsInRed

I was unaware of the rioters being privileged white people, was that covered in the media? Were they arrested and found guilty?

Disguising themselves as Black people and rioting is horrendous. Where can can I find some facts & stats on this please?

Like feminists can focus solely on protecting the rights of women
and can feel very sympathetic to transwomen, but not actually march for them

I agree op, a local nail bar here was raided and found to be a cover cleaning money and a grow house. They pulled van loads of weed from the back room. But people, clever educated reasonable people, were back when it opened. When questioned they said the people doing the nails weren’t profiting from the drugs and just trying to make a living.

I find it hard to swallow, and am portrayed as some kind of crazy hippy. I would support any movement towards traceability for textiles. We have it for wood and chocolate and coffee, albeit not flawlessly.

I think it's because people think it's just making someone work hard for close to no or no money.
They don't realise these people are often trafficked, put into horrible living conditions, beaten, threaten etc.

[quote UgaBaluga82]@PicsInRed

I was unaware of the rioters being privileged white people, was that covered in the media? Were they arrested and found guilty?

Disguising themselves as Black people and rioting is horrendous. Where can can I find some facts & stats on this please?[/quote]
....
Statements by law officers ok ?
Here is a sample on investigations:

Minnesota Officials Link Arrested Looters to ‘White Supremacist’ Groups

www.courthousenews.com/minnesota-officials-link-arrested-looters-to-white-supremacist-groups/

Department of Safety Commissioner John Harrington said they are contact-tracing the arrested and added that an investigation is underway about
white nationalist groups posting online to encourage their members to use the protests as a cover to create chaos.

He said some of the 40 arrests made in the Twin Cities Friday night were of people linked to white supremacist groups and organized crime.

SurrT You have raised some good points. The whole point of the protest was to highlight the fact that black people are still suffering from systemic racism after all this time. OP I am interested in hearing more about what your work entails.

I think YABU actually.

You and some other posters don't seem to understand that BLM is not solely or even primarily focused on historical slavery. People are dying today, that is the major focus. There's nothing wrong with BLM activists focusing on their specific cause, like most activists do, and personally I think it's ridiculous that they are continually challenged to change their core focus (all lives matter and so on).

I also disagree that anyone who cares about historical slavery doesn't care about modern-day slavery. This certainly isn't true for anyone I know, and the only evidence seems to be media coverage of certain protesters, and a lot of assumptions being made.

Given the enormous amount of slavery and exploitation in food production worldwide (including the food we all eat) it is virtually impossible for us to completely avoid benefiting from it. All we can do is try to raise awareness and push through serious reforms. So maybe focus on that instead of tearing down other activist causes.

@C130

SurrT You have raised some good points. The whole point of the protest was to highlight the fact that black people are still suffering from systemic racism after all this time. OP I am interested in hearing more about what your work entails.

What do you wan to know? I only see the children, not the conditions they have come from. They are largely Vietnamese or Pakistani, at least the ones handed to me. There are British children sold into slavery too, but I don't get many of those, they mostly go back to their families, although they quite often get sold again.

It has recently been publicly acknowledged that British slaves don't have the same support as slaves that have been trafficked into the uK

The think with historic slavery is that isn't looked at holistically either - it's really just race based slavery in the modern period (by which I mean the 17th century+) that people know about.

This is significant because it means they tend to have a very narrow view of what slavery is, what it's for, why it is so ubiquitous and difficult to root out. The don't always recognise modern slavery because it doesn't look like what they think of as slavery. They also don't see slavery within the larger structures of class.

Many people can't afford to live ethically, you can be against it and try your best but realistically buying ethically made items is so expensive. Luckily when you're poor you don't contribute so much to things like climate change-- we can't afford a car nor foreign holidays, so at least there's that.

A heck of a lot of the backlash against globalist economics by the working and lower middle classes who are suspicious of freedom of capital and labour and free trade is clearly connected to issues around fair pay and working conditions. It's true that in a globalist economy it's difficult if not impossible for the less well off to chose locally made or nationally produced products - the whole economic picture is made up around the cheapest labour and resource extraction - even local manufacturers have to compete with them.

It's really bizarre that the supposed left, who are talking so much about historic slavery right now, also vehemently support globalist economics, even claiming that those who want it regulated are bigots.

There are some serious distraction techniques going on with that.

The sex worker industry relies totally on trafficked woman and children, and slavery
Totally?

Totally agree, seen quite a few comments about slavery is in the past, doesnt exists today etc. All those people buying the fake goods, especially on holiday

I think this is a very complex point tbh. Racism (and its links to the historic Atlantic Slave Trade) And modern slavery are both aberrations on what we would, Today, consider an acceptable society.

If you view society as a person, history, as that’s persons past/life experiences then most people would agree that problems that manifest themselves in That person inlater life can usually be traced back to previous experiences.

The problem that BLM (as a concept rather than the Marxist dominated political organisation) is trying to address is present day racism. Although, I would argue, present day racism has its routes in much broader issues than the Atlantic Slave trade, it is undeniably both a real and perceived factor. Therefore, we need to address this past experience in the life of society to address current day racism. This should not be confused with an anachronistic “weren’t these Slave traders the sons of Satan” but rather, this is what happened in the past, the past cannot be changed but let’s look at everything we, as a society, have learned since then, let’s look at how our attitudes have changed, let’s look at what happened in the past so we can grow and learn from it together to make sure we don’t let the damage caused by past actions (the Atlantic Slave trade) continue to cause problems today (racism). We can recognise that society’s past actions continue to cause hurt today and search for those lessons so that we can address those echoes of the past. Unfortunately, most people aren’t looking at this, it’s Beavis and Butthead all over Slavery (meaning they Atlantic Slave traders) bad, people on one knee good. The nuances,origins,implications and causes of racism are quite frankly too time consuming to analyse for the intellectually lazy.

Unfortunately, many so called “influencers” are basically selling their wares for a currency of social media likes which they can then convert into hard cash, usually through advertising revenue. They are not there to analyse situations, to educate society, Or to have opinions they are capitalists selling hashtags rather than bobbins of cotton. The hashtags they sell are consumer driven goods, they will write what they can sell as any good capitalist would. At the moment #BLM has a high hashtag to marketing exchange rate. If anyone thinks that most of these people give a shit about anything they write they are very much mistaken. Social media posing has turned into its own performance art.

So modern day slavery is, in someways a different situation to the problem that is trying to be solved when the Atlantic slave trade is discussed (racism). That is why people try and stop seemingly separate issuesbeing bolted on to the BLM. Modern day capitalism is dependent on modern day slavery (much as the capitalism contemporary with the slave trade was). It is the current treatment of these people who are currently slaves which matters so the problem we are trying to solve here is slavery not racism (which has some of its origins in slavery).

But remember these “influencers” are capitalists, they have an interest in a system dependent on slavery. They want to make money, and are exploiting whoever they need to (including black people) in raising funds. In many ways causing divisions amongst different groups of disadvantaged people is actually a good capitalists MO.

Divide and conquer!

@dreamingbohemian interesting you should mention food production exploitation as most people will rather not think about this, myself included. I watched a documentary on Cacao production called "The Dark of Chocolate" on Netflix and it is truly heartbreaking. Children being abused because there's a need to meet the supply and demand chain of chocolate mainly in the western countries. Same with sweatshops anywhere in the world.

I am ouraged by alot of things in the world including the fact that there are some children in the UK who go hungry and the impact coronavirus will have on them due to school closure but it does not negate the focus on other issues in our world today.

You and some other posters don't seem to understand that BLM is not solely or even primarily focused on historical slavery. People are dying today, that is the major focus. There's nothing wrong with BLM activists focusing on their specific cause, like most activists do, and personally I think it's ridiculous that they are continually challenged to change their core focus (all lives matter and so on).

Hmm. Except there is a heck of a lot of focus on pulling down or defacing statues, and street names. And damn little of actually addressing in a concrete way police violence.

The latter should be easy to get people behind - this is something I saw Glen Lowry say in an interview about a year ago, and Adolph Reed, from the other end of the political spectrum, has said the same thing - police violence is not strongly correlated to race. There is a correlation, but it's weak and not clearly causative. What it is very strongly correlated with is poverty. And it affects a lot of people besides black Americans, in fact the majority of police murders are not of blacks.

This means that many people should have an interest in banding together and addressing police violence in their communities - it should be an easy sell to the population. It also suggests that a big factor is something that is going on in poor communities and that is where we should look for concrete political goals, and that reducing poverty itself might be a very excellent goal.

I think it's pretty understandable if people are doubtful about the real effectiveness of all of these marches in terms of helping anyone.

It's a complicated issue because it's almost impossible to live without buying anything that is produced unethically.

The main thing most people can do is reduce how much they buy so not upgrading your phone every year, not buying outfits you only wear once then throw away, not getting your nails and brows and botox and waxing and everything else done, not buying a new car every couple of years.

For most people, they want new things all the time and it's so readily available now.

Ethically sourced products are expensive so I think we just have to try going without instead.