AIBU to think it's unrealistic to expect people to self isolate with no income?

[AvocadosBeforeMortgages]

I honestly can't see how the government thinks people who any of the following can possibly afford to self isolate?

• on zero hours contracts and won't get sick pay
• employed by companies that only pay SSP (£95.85pw - I don't know anyone who can survive on that)
• self employed (NB even before COVID, stats showed around half of self employed people earned LESS than minimum wage, and many haven't benefited from any of the COVID related financial support)

You could get phoned up by contact tracing and told to self isolate for a fortnight = no income. This could happen repeatedly. The same happens if you're symptomatic and get a positive test.

No income = can't pay the rent or put food on the table - many of those in the groups listed above were already struggling financially before COVID - often even more so after COVID.

The government is putting people in an impossible situation. AIBU to think that many will have no choice but to continue working even if they should be self isolating - and that the government should be making payments to anyone of working age who is told to self isolate so that they don't have to choose between their 'civic duty' and keeping a roof over their family's head?

Well OP, as a self-employed person I wasn't allowed to work and had no income for three months.

It's pretty shit but I didn't have any other option. Thank God my DH was able to WFH.

Maybe there is other help for us now, in this situation. I don't know.

I have sympathy with people in the U.K. but going on holiday in the middle of a pandemic is a risk surely. And you are not entitled to SSP as you aren't sick.

YANBU. This needs to be thought through a bit more.

Yes, it's completely unrealistic.

It's not just - or even - about people going on holiday luckylavender though. Anyone could be called via test and trace and told to self-isolate, or people could be aware that a work colleague has the virus/workplace shut down and know that they should also be self-isolating, but simply not be able to do so with no income, not even sickness benefit as they aren't sick.

I agree, it was all very well when there was a complete lockdown and measures which would assist almost everyone were announced.

You can't just do random, short term announcements about quarantine or local lockdowns giving people no time to prepare, leaving some people with no support. And also businesses.

Well OP, as a self-employed person I wasn't allowed to work and had no income for three months.

I'm also self employed, and I had all my upcoming bookings cancelled. I couldn't access any of the support schemes, for arbitrary reasons like the timing of when I switched from paying taxes PAYE to Self Assessment (so no SEISS), not having separate business premises (so no £10k grant). I couldn't even get UC. I have managed to bring in a little money by doing things my business doesn't normally do, with a lower profit margin. I don't have a DP to financially support me.

A small amount of the normal work is starting to filter back in (one day per week, earnings are highly weather dependent), but I've lost most of my peak season (there's fuck all demand for my products in winter) and if I don't leave the house I don't earn a penny.

I'm fucking terrified of getting contact traced or getting symptoms. I'm already financially in the shit, no prospect of things getting back to normal until Spring 2021 (if we're lucky), and can't afford to pass up what little work does come my way.

Quarantining after a holiday should be paid for by the individual.

Self isolation because you've been asked to by track or trace should be paid by the government especially as you don't know how many times you'll be asked to do it.

It's a shame I can't edit the OP, but this thread is not about people who have gone on holiday. It's about people who have been in the UK and get symptoms and / or get contact traced.

That said, I do have some sympathy for people who went to Spain on the basis that they could travel back and forth freely, and then had the rug pulled out from under their feet.

@luckylavender

I have sympathy with people in the U.K. but going on holiday in the middle of a pandemic is a risk surely. And you are not entitled to SSP as you aren't sick.

The OP hasn't mentioned holiday's at all? They are talking in general.

YANBU to think it's unrealistic but the government cannot afford to continue to pay people's wages.

I'm self employed and so is my husband.

We are basically only going out when absolutely necessary.l and it's horrible.

I work mostly from home tutoring online and he is a carpenter in a very small team and works mainly outside.

We are having to seriously limit our interactions with others because we will be in trouble if we have to self isolate.

I barely leave the house other than to walk the dog and order all shopping to be delivered. I'm really worried about our dd going back to school in September and what that may bring if someone in her massive bubble (320 children) has symptoms but she badly needs some normality.

Although I believe that everyone should do anything they can to counter the pandemic, I can see that realistically there's no way some people will self isolate if they "can't afford to". Different people will have different ideas of what " can't" means of course, but some will truly be in trouble without that fortnight's income, see PPs here.

One would think that the behavioural psychologists who are advising the government (as part of SAGE) would have pointed this out.

Not sure what other governments are doing?

I agree OP. It's all very well to say it's your duty, but it could be financially catastrophic for many people. The government must already know this - if they didn't the recent report on care homes (more cases in care homes which didn't pay sick pay) should have underlined it for them.

If a SE person isn’t making min wage then it’s time to ditch the hobby business if they can’t survive on the money made or gain employment along side.

I think SSP should be paid by employers for those self isolating as they can claim back from the state so can cover the costs of agency staff etc needed to keep running. Employers should be fined if they knowingly allow staff to work who should be self isolating and there should be harsh penalties for individuals who fail to comply.

If due to quarantine, then no. If you can afford to go abroad you can afford to quarantine imo. It’s a risk of deciding you want a holiday in the middle of a pandemic.

Maybe it will make some more sensible if there are consequences and they will realise that makes, SD etc are there for a reason,

I was thinking that too @IceCreamAndCandyfloss , if you're self employment brings in less than min wage then tithings would be financially strained before covid?

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss my dh and I earn way more than minimum wage and are SE. However, half my summer tuition is cancelled because it was group workshops and DH was out of work for 10 weeks because customers didn't want them on site. Covid has massively affected our finances and it's not because our businesses are unsuccessful.

I'm relieved we didn't book to go on holiday this year as I feel we'd have no choice but to cancel and lose even more money.

If you’re contacted by track and trace you just go and get yourself tested. Negative test = go back to work. Results only take about 24hrs now.

Those on the shielded list - who even when shielding pauses later this week - can only WOH in a Covid-safe environment (whatever that means) currently stand to get nothing, forcing them to choose between running a life-threading risk or starve. Yes we still get delivery slot priority but that's not much use if you have not enough money to pay for it.

Charities are active in trying to persuade the Government to have some sort of support, maybe a type of furlough lite, as we could be facing this for many, many weeks over the coming months, as they are advising us that we are the first back inside and the last out if there are local restrictions.

I hope we are not going to be overlooked

Can’t claim SSP back any longer. That was taken away by the tories years ago

If you’re contacted by track and trace you just go and get yourself tested. Negative test = go back to work. Results only take about 24hrs now

It doesn't work like that. Incubation period usually about 6 days, but range is 2-14. An early negative test does not mean you are not incoubating it, and you must not break isolation even if you get yourself tested

@Rinoachicken

If you’re contacted by track and trace you just go and get yourself tested. Negative test = go back to work. Results only take about 24hrs now.

Thought you couldn't get a test without symptoms. So if you've been in contact with someone, its staying at home for 14 days since you last saw them, unless you become symptomatic. The test cant pick up if you are about to get covid because you had a pint and a curry with Balonz 2 days ago, and Balonz tested positive yesterday, can it?

If a SE person isn’t making min wage then it’s time to ditch the hobby business if they can’t survive on the money made or gain employment along side.

Some of those people will be earning less than minimum wage because they are in the start up phase of a business. It's considered completely normal to lose money in the first year of business, due to start up costs and reinvesting profits.

Other people will be self employed because it offers the flexibility that they can't get in traditional employment - for instance, due to health problems, or caring responsibilities - meaning that taking a regular job isn't realistic. Being self employed and bringing in less than minimum wage is genuinely their best available option.

There's a massive variety of reasons why people are self employed and not earning huge amounts - but my original point was about the fact that many SE people weren't swimming in cash beforehand.

I had to cope on no money for months because I wasn't able to operate my business due to lockdown restrictions and wasn't eligible for any help.

I did as I was asked and stopped working. No one helped or gave any financial assistance.

I don't think two weeks without income is too much to ask from people given how much longer many of us have had to go without being able to work.

There's a massive variety of reasons why people are self employed and not earning huge amounts

I agree with op here, there is a lot of naivety when it comes to the self employed!
However, YANBU about all the potential self isolation that could happen and that its unrealistic for people to be able to afford to potentially keep doing it.
I laugh at the fact that employers need to be sympathetic. Sympathy is not going to be able to keep paying for potentially repeated absence due to self isolation and quarantine. So unless they actually are off sick or other statutory leave then how is sympathy going to help as not everyone can work from home, so what then? The government has already forked out a ton of financial help an they just cant keep it up either.

Not sure what they answer is though, I know many business/employers who will be struggling to build up financial security again so the money just isnt there.

I dont think many people on MN will actually be told to isolate through the track and trace system. They would have to answer the phone to a withheld/unknown number for that to happen.

YABU. If they can afford the holiday, they can afford to self isolate.

And if they’re going to put everyone’s health at risk because they jetted off abroad then they have to deal with two weeks unpaid.