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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think DPs employer is behaving illegally

33 replies

Everythingnotsaved · 27/07/2020 12:01

DP got signed off work 2 weeks ago with RSI caused by using machinery in work. He’s kind of better but doesn’t get sick pay so the doctor has said he’s ok to go back if he sees occupational health.

His work is saying they don’t have an occupational health dept and if he can’t do the job, he can’t come back & so are trying to force him to stay off.

Aibu to think it’s not legal? We are really confused about what’s right and what isn’t

OP posts:
Bemorechicken · 27/07/2020 12:05

Depends what the GP note says. It is says "fit for work provided the RSI caused by machinery at work is addressed through OH and steps taken to minimise this and this" yes they are being unreasonable. IF the injury is caused by work - the GP could write "Fit for work in alternative role not using the machinary that has caused x injury" etc

Your best bet is ACAS

Bemorechicken · 27/07/2020 12:07

Ask them to conduct a risk assessment to enable him to return to work without making the RSI worse. The employer must do that.

Original poster
Everythingnotsaved · 27/07/2020 12:09

The GP note just said RSI and advised him to see occy health but the company don’t have a dept. The GP didn’t give any advice as don’t feel they can comment on a work issue.

Work are saying that because he didn’t report the RSI, it’s nothing to do with them.

The whole thing is REALLY confusing us

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Original poster
Everythingnotsaved · 27/07/2020 12:09

They won’t do a risk assessment either

OP posts:
Original poster
Everythingnotsaved · 27/07/2020 12:10

DP is worried that will try and get rid of him as they are basically saying if he can’t do the work, he can go away

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AlwaysCheddar · 27/07/2020 12:16

Call ACAS.

user1471457751 · 27/07/2020 12:18

It's not illegal for a company to not have an occupational health resource. They do not have to accept the GP's recommendations. So unless he is fit for work they don't have to let him back. It's more complicated in the case of disability as there is a requirement on the employer to make reasonable adjustments but nothing you've said indicates a disability.

SoddingWeddings · 27/07/2020 12:20

Contact the Health and Safety Executive as well as ACAS. They need to be implementing the risk assessments about the safety of the machinery and the task so no one else becomes injured.

Original poster
Everythingnotsaved · 27/07/2020 12:21

But if they don’t accept the GPS recommendations who is saying he is ok to go back, how can he ever go back to work without some kind of assessment?

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FusionChefGeoff · 27/07/2020 12:22

If he's been off work for over a week and the doc can be more specific than RSI eg Tendonitis / carpal tunnel / cramp then it could become reportable to the HSE and they can investigate etc. If there's no risk assessment for the procedure that's injured him they are in BIG trouble.

An employee has a duty under H&S law to raise these issues and to protect their own H&S plus you are NOT allowed to fire / discipline for action taken to protect H&S. It would be up to the employer to show that they have done everything and it is safe before DH could get any problems. And without a risk assessment they can't do that.

What's the equipment / activity??

Basically I would suggest that he is perfectly entitled to refuse to do the activity until it has been properly risk assessed and control measures put in place but is entitled to return to work.

Original poster
Everythingnotsaved · 27/07/2020 12:26

It’s using an industrial hedge cutter and he was put under pressure to ‘go the extra mile’ while then telling him off for doing extra!

They have said that because he didn’t report it, it’s nothing to do with them but he couldn’t report it because he had been signed off sick

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Thislittlelady · 27/07/2020 12:31

If gp signs him fit to work he can go back. (Med cert from gp stating end date) totally agree with everyone here ACAS you need ACAS. they HAVE to perform risk assessment. Take notes of any conversation dp has with employer comments made times and dates etc. Sounds like they want you to work with no rights or being ‘difficult’. And that’s not on. Has he been employed more than two years? If he goes back to his normal job then they can’t just get rid of him... they need a reason. They can’t fabricate one so it’s really important he keeps good notes

daisychain01 · 27/07/2020 12:35
  • It's unclear who your DHs employer is if he doesn't get sick leave, is that because he is not directly employed by them? Who is his employer?
  • you mentioned he couldn't report the injury because he was signed off sick? What was stopping him reporting his injury - doesn't he know the process, they should have clarified it to him when he started working for them, as he is using their machinery.
daisychain01 · 27/07/2020 12:36
  • they should at least be paying him statutory sick pay as a minimum. Aren't they doing that?
daisiesandpeonies · 27/07/2020 12:36

I have a lot of trade union rep experience. Your husband’s work can be asked to do a risk assessment - and if the injury was caused at work it should have been written up at the time and investigated to try and prevent it happening again. Depending on the seriousness of the injury it may need to be reported to RIDDOR too.
If your husband’s work is not able to guarantee him not suffering further injury, they can extend his sick leave or try and offer reasonable adjustments (as with a disability.) But if this is really not possible and your husband does not want more sick leave then they may only be able to offer redundancy. It’s up to them what redundancy package they offer. It’s a tricky situation that’s not fully black/white-reasonable adjustment is a very loose term. Try citizens advice, they can be very helpful ❤️ If he’s not in a union he sadly won’t be able to get help from one now as there’s usually a time you to be a member for before they’ll take on a case.

Bella2020 · 27/07/2020 12:43

I don't understand why your husband's employer can't engage an occupational health provider from an outside organisation; my first one was done by Serco.

If the employer is refusing to fulfill their H & S obligations they could land themselves with a constructive dismissal case, surely. Keep records of everything they say, every communication. Just in case.

user1471457751 · 27/07/2020 12:45

This is not a redundancy situation. Job roles are made redundant so if the job still needs doing then there is no redundancy. It's worrying a TU rep doesn't know that.

LakieLady · 27/07/2020 12:46

I think he needs to talk to ACAS and to HSE.

It's a real pity that he didn't mention it was caused by the hedge trimmer. Employees have a duty to report anything in the workplace that they think may be an H&S issue. I think the employer then has to ensure a risk assessment is carried out.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was, my lightweight domestic hedge trimmer really makes my wrist and elbow hurt and I only ever do half the hedge at a time, which takes about 20 mins.

trilbydoll · 27/07/2020 12:48

We don't have an occ health dept, we use a company if we ever need an employee to see someone. It's a very easy thing to outsource, and it's not expensive either.

LIZS · 27/07/2020 12:56

When he called in sick did he not state the injury was due to using the equipment? Did he have training in its use and health and safety requirements, using earguards, taking breaks etc. Is he an employee or contractor? There are outsourced OH providers the company could use.

Inthemuckheap · 27/07/2020 12:59

Is he self-employed? If not he should be receiving statutory sick pay. If he is self-employed then it is up to him to risk assess each job.

If employed he needs to speak to ACAS and follow their guidance.

Original poster
Everythingnotsaved · 27/07/2020 13:04

He did tell them about the equipment when he was off but they have still said it’s his responsibility for not reporting it.

Sorry, he does get Statutory sick pay but not company sick pay

The whole thing just seems really dodgy - like they are trying to shirk all responsibility

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Original poster
Everythingnotsaved · 27/07/2020 13:07

Also, the employers have been totally unsympathetic and just acted like it’s all his fault & that he’s done something wrong & made him feel like his job is at risk - it’s so stressful

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MintyMabel · 27/07/2020 13:10

They won’t do a risk assessment either

Then you should report to the HSE. This is standard practice for using machinery.

RB68 · 27/07/2020 13:10

I think there are some HSE issues here that need closer examination - it is not reasonable to report injury before it is known what it is or caused by so having been off sick its reasonable to report the injury on return - the nature of this injury is such that it is not a one off to be noticed immediately but one that builds over time due to either poor training, poor instruction, lack of a proper method statement or just lazy supervision. Either way it is their business and they can't exclude liability.

It is not unusual for OH and H&S management to be outsourced so no they wouldn't nec have someone in house but that is part of the cost of being an employer.