Government tackling obesity missing a key element

[HeeeeyDuggee]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53546151

Government have announced measures to tackle obesity

AIBU to think that although it’s all well and good banning buy 1 get 1 free and advertising before 21:00 what they really need to do is make fresh fruit and vegetables and good quality meat cheaper for people to buy.

It may be a regional thing but buying enough veg for the week here costs a fortune and it goes off within days. Where as you can buy a massive packet nuggets and chips for much less.

Pre covid it was bad enough for lots of families but given the ramifications on jobs and the economy I think lots more families will struggle to afford decent healthy food.

Ps not a fat persons bashing thread I myself am over weight

We link food to wellbeing at such a young age and have 'naughty'and 'good' food. A bit of cycling isnt going to do anything. The low mood to eating and boredom to eating is massive.

Poverty is a cause of obesity

Not always , so yes in many cases it undeniably is

But travel to an airport , a motorway service station . All you can see is stalls selling unhealthy food and erm , overweight people

So it’s the UK culture
We don’t cook , we eat processed food and we drink a shit load too

I've posted on this topic before but really serious poverty totally skews your judgement regarding food and spending. I was in a position with my abusive and hard drinking ex where I had no gas (so no central heating or hot water for shower etc) due to a condemned boiler and a slum landlord. The fridge had a tiny freezer box so nowhere to put batch cooking. And half the time the electricity was at risk of going off due to not being credited. No luxuries at all, I remember crying when I went to sell some of ex's games for a few quid for food and the shop owner threw in a free mars bar. I ate it as soon as I got out and didn't mention it to ex. Food was scant and whatever I could afford. Typically dry cornflakes, a burger relish sandwich and maybe a few boiled potatoes, homemade chips or another sandwich for a day. The worst days it was dough balls - kwik save flour and water, deep fried in a frier we'd been given. I was just so ground down with abuse, hunger and cold that escape wasn't an option at that point. Anyway, I once found £10 on the street. That was an epic sum to me and after putting money on the electric to guarantee a few days light and a bit of heat from a plug in heater, I spent the rest on takeaway and a magazine. Instant, hot, delicious, calorie rich food and a bit of daft escapism. Did more for me than bulk buying pulses and dried herbs ever could have even though objectively it was not the best possible value for money. Poverty and food is complex and I really think you have to have lived it to understand. Banning BOGOF and adverts won't stop people making unhealthy choices, giving people the means to rise out of poverty and empower themselves will. Non poverty related bad choices I'm not so sure about as this as a PP said is actually a separate issue.

If we could get people down to eating only twice a day (no snacks ever) and only drink tap water both of which are pretty cheap that would be a good start.

I totally agree with you @BarbedBloom -- the examples you give are spot-on about the true causes of obesity being much more complex!

Home economics was crap in school. They were teaching us to make apple tart or cakes when people in my class didn't know how to boil a potato.

Nothing changes. Still the same. My son has just gone through secondary school, and although they've changed the name - it's "Food tech" now, it's still the same old, same old. The only thing that's changed is that they do more theory now meaning less time actually cooking, but the theory and the practicality don't match. They have a lesson on healthy eating, vitamins, etc., and then the next week, they're making a cake or sausage rolls or scones! It's a crazy mismatch and they're not following through the healthy eating/nutritional theory into practice at all. It's also a con as at the open days, they lay out all kinds of exotic foods from all over the world in a really impressive buffet, but that's not what they cook in the classroom in lessons.

Poverty is a cause of obesity

One of MANY causes. Plenty of people in poverty who manage to have healthy lifestyles and aren't obese. Just like there are plenty of wealthy people who are unhealthy and obese, Many, many, more factors at play than money in your pocket.

There is so much more to weight loss than the simplistic cutting portions and exercising more. I have been reading about insulin resistance, low carbing etc and it struck a chord with me. Post-menopausal and with a tummy that I can't lose no matter how I dropped my calorie intake. I am shifting to lower carbs and it is working slowly. I also learned recently that cortisol can prevent weight loss so I have moved to reduce some stress levels by tackling overdue issues. None of this is in the mainstream media. I had a conversation yesterday with friends who all have switched to low sugar versions of soft drinks thinking they are being healthy. The artificial sweeteners spike insulin and force the body to store more fat.

Ghrelin is the hormone which is suppressed by Bariatric surgery.

But it is not usually permanent. The effects of the surgery are not permanent (except the nutritional absorption damage via roux en y)
It is only 'the answer' in cases where the patients life would be in danger if they continued their weight gain trajectory, I believe.

Thank you to the poster who posted the Foresight Map.
There are SO many factors that contribute to obesity.
Poor diet, lack of exercise, yes, but also stress, lack of sleep, poverty.

Fat shaming (endemic and causes cycle to continue) and surgery are not the answer on a wide scale.

Nor are the long term consequences particularly well understood
(it hasn't been used widely enough for long enough, imo)

@feelingverylazytoday there were some studies, I think it was Japan about stopping smoking and sweet cravings. I am not into sweets, but when I stopped. Wow.
Apparently nicotine changes how body works with sugar. So when you stop, it wants sugar. By stopping you also increase your risk of diabetes for, I think it was, 7 years!

I believe it because on top of my withdrawal from hell, I had what I can only describe as a bout of exemplary diabetes symptoms.

We've also demonised some foods that, whilst unhealthy, aren't as bad as others. Eg a fresh bacon or sausage bun is better for you than a supermarket sandwich and bag of crisps/bar of chocolate. Likewise an English breakfast isn't as bad as a heaped bowl of a sugar laden breakfast cereal out of a packet.

Even at £200 pa, that's around 50p per day and you've probably saved bus fare or petrol while you were doing it plus the cost of the crisps and chocolate you might have been eating on the sofa if you didn't go out for a walk

My DC's experience of food tech was that it really was absolute food basics and they never got near to what I'd call "proper" cooking.

So it was things like how to peel and chop fruit and vegetables and grate cheese, but the only things they made were things like fruit salad, apple crumble, pizza using pitta bread as a base and bread rolls (in an hour!!!!). The class was split between those who'd already learnt basic skills at home and whizzed through it, and those who had no idea how to peel a carrot and really struggled. obviously the basic food prep skills are useful, but they don't instantly translate into cooking a meal for yourself. not to mention that non-academic subjects are now limited in the school timetable, so my DC's food tech experience was only 10 hours in Year 7 and 10 hours in Year 8, some of which was spent talking about kitchen safety and food hygiene and food groups.

Meat should be a fuck load more expensive and very much less available because it's terrible for the environment and not great for your health.

Non-meat proteins much better for you, and v v much cheaper. I don't think a lot of people are educated on how to eat well for cheap tbh, it should be more focused on in school.

Meat and dairy farms in this country are places that keep the countryside and it’s biodiversity going. Arable fields are much less so ( they are ideally large as possible with little in the way of hedges or anything but the crop). Or they are vast swathes of plastic poly tunnels.

Meat substitutes are processed food like anything else. Added to which things like the soya plant has very little edible for us with mosts of it turned into animal feed.

But I think you are right that we will all end up eating some non meat meal substitute 100 years from now.

There is so much more to weight loss than the simplistic cutting portions and exercising more

There will always be exceptions where for a raft of reasons be it physical or psychological some people will find it very hard to control their weight. But the sad truth is that reducing your calorie intake and exercising more will be the cornerstone of most non fad weight loss programmes

I agree with the PP who said we need to separate middle class obesity and poverty obesity

As very different issues with different solutions needed

I can easily trip into MC obesity and both my kids did during lockdown
A treat here , a missed exercise day there , too much lockdown wine , comfort eating etc
And the booze , fuck me we pack away the alcohol in this country and it’s completely and utterly culturally accepted

Not even remotely comparable to someone who can only shop at the Local Nisa /Iceland and is so exhausted they just send the kids to get chips and don’t really comprehend that a crisp multipack whilst cheap is poor nutrition

Such a systemic issue , as poor people in other countries (whilst also obese) do have a healthier national diet to fall back on

Tax junk food more and you'll end up with even more unhealthy junk food, the same way soft drink manufacturers have replaced sugar with a variety of far cheaper toxic sweeteners. Or smaller servings.

Removing things from temptation helps. I'm overweight. I like a McDonalds once a week, we have one literally across the road. During lockdown I couldn't get McDonalds even when they opened because I sold my car early this year, so I just didn't think about it. Then when I realized Uber Eats would deliver to me for £4 (because it's apparently so far away although I can literally see it from my kitchen window) I started getting it delivered. So if you tacked that £4 onto the price of a bacon double cheeseburger meal it wouldn't phase me in the slightest!

Money is not the issue where junk food is concerned, and we need to stop letting politicians pretend it is so they can tax us more and say they're being so proactive.

We need less processed convenience food in the supermarkets, and more fresh food choice and education. Make the star of the supermarket the aisle of in season locally produced fruit and veg, with signs suggesting simple meal suggestions. Social media campaigns for "Tomato Tuesday" or "Mushroom Monday" with celeb chefs or other rent-a-celebs showing how they like to prepare them. Fruit and veg is incredibly cheap - you can get a kilo bag of carrots for 70p. Push the economy aspect instead of allowing the myth that it's so expensive.

At the beginning of lockdown when we were shopping more infrequently we had lots more pulses/meals made with left overs and were much more imaginative with cooking. But that was 2 adults with reasonable store cupboard ingredients and knowledge of cooking.
What is often overlooked is access to get to shops that sell cheaper fresh food. Aldi is cheap but I've yet to see one in a town centre, most of the ones near us are in out of town retail parks. By the time you factor in a bus or taxi if you dont drive, that may negate any saving. Often small coops and corner shops have more processed food and/or much higher prices for staples.
It's not always as easy as "go to lidl or aldi"

Haven't rtft so someone may already have made this point; it's not all about the cost of food.
Pre-covid I used to stop for a coffee at my favourite place, I always order skinny whatever, maybe a teacake, because I know that I am overweight at 11 stone and shouldn't have more.
And then I look around me and see at least half a dozen people who are obese tucking into double chocolate chip muffins washed down by hot chocolate with whipped cream and marshmallows!
Both snacks cost about the same but one has three times as many calories as the other (the cafe menu includes the calorie count).

So, do they all have glandular problems, mental health problems, big bones?

Or are some people just greedy?

Given that people all over the country are finding themselves trying to manage work with no available childcare, telling them to spend more time researching, preparing and cooking food is a bit... Ridiculous?
After trying to squeeze an 8 hour working day on while also wrangling kids, sorting the house etc. Spending an hour in the kitchen is just not appealing. Same for exercise. It's much much easier to throw something quick in the oven or get takeaway. And yes, I know we could put stuff in the slow cooker in the morning but that requires spending energy and time on meal planning and shopping. I am exhausted. All the time.

They are always fat bashing threads

No matter what your intentions when starting this thread, they only ever go one way

Not just fat bashing. They always stigmatise poorer people. Find ways to call them stupid, lazy, feckless. It's just the same judgemental bollocks that is all over this place. Out of the hundreds of posts on this thread there are probably a handful that aren't sticking the boot in to the lazy stupid poor.

And everyone know that losing weight is essentially just eating less and moving more. It's simple.
Except it's not, because if it was then people would do it and there would be no obesity. Something, or many many things, get in the way of people actually doing it. Just telling people to do it doesn't work.

We need less processed convenience food in the supermarkets, and more fresh food choice and education. Make the star of the supermarket the aisle of in season locally produced fruit and veg, with signs suggesting simple meal suggestions. Social media campaigns for "Tomato Tuesday" or "Mushroom Monday" with celeb chefs or other rent-a-celebs showing how they like to prepare them. Fruit and veg is incredibly cheap - you can get a kilo bag of carrots for 70p. Push the economy aspect instead of allowing the myth that it's so expensive.

Whilst I agree that fruit and veg are cheap - food in general is cheaper than it has ever been relative to incomes - I’d like to know which supermarket is going to jump first when it comes to cutting down the amount of junk it sells. We all know that people would go elsewhere to get it, so if Sainsbury’s are the first movers, Asda will immediately start publicising that they are selling pipes of Pringles for £1!

I think it needs to be more expensive. Nobody needs four double deckers for £1. Even poorer people: the £1 would be better spent on vegetables or pasta.

@DopamineHits, I have to ask why you need a car or an uber delivery to get food from the McDonalds that is just across the road from you and that you can see from your kitchen window ...

Pre-covid I used to stop for a coffee at my favourite place, I always order skinny whatever, maybe a teacake, because I know that I am overweight at 11 stone and shouldn't have more.
And then I look around me and see at least half a dozen people who are obese tucking into double chocolate chip muffins washed down by hot chocolate with whipped cream and marshmallows!

Isn't that a little hypocritical of you? If you're overweight too you haven't only been having "skinny whatever".