AIBU or should I just accept always having to do more?

[ShadowCat17]

Talking to my MIL earlier and discussing the differences between her generation and mine with regards housework and child raring. She was a SAHM for many years and my FIL, though a wonderful Dad, did very little with regards child raring which I think is fairly usual for their generation.

My DH is the youngest and an only boy, and currently is WFH due to covid. I’m on mat leave with DS2 4 months and DS1 22 months. MIL keeps saying I’m so lucky that DH is home to help out so much as she had no help from FIL when raising her children but that isn’t the case as I pretty much do everything around the house including cleaning and doing or arranging regular house maintenance, as well as being responsible for everything to do with the children. While I’m on mat leave I don’t have issue with doing more of the housework / childcare, but I do regularly get fed up as I feel DH could do more around the house now without me having to tell him (a real bugbare of mine) TBF he does his best, he’s just not great at time management so does take ages to do what I would do in a fraction of the time.

MIL is of the opinion that I need to stop complaining about ‘fair’ division of labour as it will never be split evenly because a man just naturally can’t do as much because they aren’t wired that way and I should just get on with it as I’ll just make everyone miserable (including children) expecting DH to do more.

I feel strongly that especially as I’m raising 2 boys that I can and should expect DH to step up to do more housework and child raring because it’s teaching them that woman shouldn’t be expected to do more just because they are female.

AIBU to be fed up that the bar always seems to be set so low for men in this regard?

Yanbu and people like your MiL are why men aren't "wired that way".

Dh has a tendency to be like this and the only way is to Stop Doing It, and also to ensure you have a decent job outside the home to put you on a more equal footing with your partner financially. It is hard, because what happens at first is the house is a tip, the children get sent to nursery in pyjama bottoms by mistake etc, but it does eventually force change. If it doesn't you seriously consider whether you want to be with someone so misogynistic that they will live in novel with neglected children rather than pitch in.

Oh, FGS!

The OP has a MIL who stereotypes men and generalises, and is then met with PPs who generalise about and stereotype a generation.

Who do you think invented feminism, and in what generation? Women have always worked. My mother is 89 and was a housewife for many years but my friends Mums were teachers, doctors, laundrette managers...

And my Mum swore she would never let my brothers leave home expecting to be looked after by another woman.

OP: your DH is taking advantage of the laziness his mother expected of him. Ask him if he is really as incompetent as his mother thinks men are?

You don’t have to make everyone miserable but if you go through a list of how much you each do and the relative relaxation time you each have, you might get it.

I dare say you have other ways to validate your life than running after a man and his two sons. So I would put the effort in now.

I don't see how you can really complain about having to do all the housework and child rearing while you are on mat leave. With respect if setting a good example and ensuing your husband does his part was important to you you would have agreed that he take 50% parental leave. No excuse for your 4 month old, it's been your legal right for some time!

Never understand why women sacrifice a year of their career voluntarily and then get upset that they get left with all the drudgery.

Men absolutely can and should do more, I think especially in family units when raising young boys. These behaviours, like so many, are learnt and passed on through generations. I don't like to call myself lucky, because it isn't luck, but my DH does waaaaay more than his lion's share of the housework. Much more than I do; he dusts, hoovers, cleans the bathrooms, washes up, does the rubbish, keeps things tidy, while I cook, tend the garden, do the washing and ironing. And that has continued while I have been furloughed and he has been working full time. We help each other out with the other's 'jobs' when we can see it's needed - it's a supportive partnership. And I'm glad my DS and incoming DD will see this as the norm.

My mil is a bit like this. She had it shit though, shes a farmers wife and worked her bloody backside off on the farm as well as everything in the house and with kids but shes never had any proper recognition for it. That being said she raised lazy sons who dont do their share in their homes and like OP's mil will say things like "you're so lucky you get help" or "you cant expect him to do cuz surely you should be doing it"

My dh will try lines like "my mum didnt have help/ my dad never did..." and regularly compares to his friends who appear just as useless and tells me im lucky if he does the dishwasher. Hes learning though, I dont compare our relationship to others. He knows I'll happily do it all if he earns enough to keep me in this lifestyle without me working at all. He doesn't so hes learning to share jobs in the home

my FIL, though a wonderful Dad, did very little with regards child rearing I cannot see how someone can be a wonderful dad without doing any actual parenting. Sounds more like a disney dad. Stop thinking of his lack of parenting as wonderful.

Now set higher standards for your husband. Is their some reason he is bad at time management? Like ADHD? Is he bad at time management at work? Or does he just take forever to do one job so you dont give him another?

If he is wfh then he cannot be doing housework during the day. But when he has clocked off and at weekends, things need to be shared. And when back at work, need to be shared equally.

Do you go out alone and leave the children with him ever? Can you start simply by saying ‘I’m going for a run. The children need their dinner’ When he is not doing anything and just leave?

Or just tell him that he isnt contributing fairly to parenting or running the house at the moment, Which makes you feel frustrating and not valued, and as it isnt your job to train him, what is his solution?

Christ, there not their.

Hi OP are you me? I have a similar situation with MIL. She's been a stay at home mum/wife her whole life & her other half is hailed a hero (as are all men) for going to work. She quite frequently admonishes me for expecting DH to pull his weight. DH dips in & our of doing his fair share but his mum & sister think he deserves a medal for running the hoover round, this unfortunately goes to his head.

I've found with MIL she's entitled to her opinions (she has a lot & are mostly ridiculous) I do however take a step back as I don't want to ruin our otherwise good relationship. Can you do the same?

Your DH however DOES need to pull his weight.

@GilderoyLockdown

Gosh, I can't imagine where DH learned those behaviours...

But he’s a grown-up, he can unlearn them!

My MIL was like this, never worked since having kids, did everything round the house (fair enough, FIL was a coal miner), she had 2 DSs she did everything for, yet amazingly enough DH managed to learn to cook and do housework! That stuff about men not being wired for it is garbage! And an insult to men frankly.

You need to show your DH this thread OP. Tell him it’s not the 1950s anymore.

For one, there seem to often an undermining view of the demands of a higher paid job, but even irregardless of this, there is lack of appreciation that 'fair' division can often be over time.

As someone in one of those jobs, who still does most of the housework, I'm not sure I can agree with this. It is very possible to have a high stress, high work load job and still do a lot around the house.

Your DH is working from home. Would you expect him to pop home from the office to do a bit of hoovering?

Working from home is hard, it is easy to get distracted. Suddenly deadlines are whooshing past and you are watching a bonus go with them, followed by promotions.

"AIBU to be fed up that the bar always seems to be set so low for men in this regard?"

Set so low by whom?

MIL probably says what she does to "defend" the way she lived her married life & she maybe sees what you say as a slight against her son.

Sort it out with him & not her.

Get him to step up & help in the way you want.

What was the division like before you went on mat leave?

And I echo a PP in asking whether he's taking any parental leave? Until couples decide that men are equally responsible for child rearing and start splitting parental leave, patterns of work established on maternity leave are going to continue, and we're going to carry on having these battles.

How a man is brought up doesn’t mean he can’t be different to his dad.
My FiL did nothing at home whatsoever, except set the table, pour the wine and carve the roast. MIL was a SAHM until her 5 kids (!) were in secondary school, when she worked full time as a secretary. She still did all the housework.
My DH was the polar opposite, despite his upbringing. I had to beg him to let me change a nappy when our DD was a fortnight old, as he was due to go back to work and I needed to learn! He was a fab cook, and used to drive ten miles to bring me a homemade dinner in hospital when I was on call. He did more than his fair share of all cleaning and gardening, especially when I was a junior doctor working horrendous hours.
I think it depends far more on your DH’s personality than his role models - a lazy or selfish man will always weasel out of chores. Or perform them incompetently, hoping you won’t ask again. I still miss my lovely DH now, 28 years after he died.

Taking parental leave is often not financially viable unless companies have a decent pay policy.

Your MIL is wrong. The division should be fair. Equal leisure time, particularly when you're back at workm

There's no point arguing with your MIL about this. If for no other reason that whether you mean to or not, any criticism of how litter her DS does around the house will seem like criticism to her.

MIL has tried in the past to convince me that when DH loses his temper and behaves appallingly that I should just let it go. He had to seek counselling because I refused to marry him if he didn't get on top of it. But I feel sorry for him because clearly no one ever told him that total temper tantrums were not okay. There's no point arguing with her about it. Even now, she'll make the odd almost joking comment about DH's epic tantrums and is completely oblivious that this is a problem.

Your primary job is children, your secondary is housework/maintenence. His primary job is his job, his secondary is housework/maintenance.

What? Hello 1950!

Equal leisure time is one part of it. Fair shares of domestic work and parenting are also v important.

Fair doesn’t necessarily mean the same. OP’s set up doesn’t sound fair to her.

Taking parental leave is often not financially viable unless companies have a decent pay policy

I'm not sure that is quite true.

I accept some workplaces do not give men as generous terms as women although I thought that was starting to be less and less common? Maybe I am wrong.

What I can say is that few workplaces offer more than 6 months full pay. Most women are moving to SMP after 6 months - why shouldn't it be Dad?

If you are in the rare but fortunate position where you get say 9 months full pay but your husband only gets 4 weeks or something, then I can see why you might be tempted to stay off for 9 months...but what about the other 3?

Is anyone seriously saying they get 12 months paid mat leave?

There's usually just no excuse for women picking up the parental leave burden these days. I wouldn't stand for it personally (and my DH is self-employed, so he gets zero pat leave).

Problem is that if the woman is the lower earner anyway, then having the man be off is even more of a financial hit. Most workplaces don't honour the equivalent of maternity pay for men for a variety of reasons. I know some places only give a week paid paternity leave and then it moves straight to statutory.

Most women in my experience don't take 12 months as they can't afford to! 12 months leave for either parent is a total luxury.

There's usually just no excuse for women picking up the parental leave burden these days

There really is! Women need time to recover post birth and many families can't afford longer than 6 months off.

Think outside your financial bubble.

I (f) do 95% of the mental load - including looking after finances - and my dh does 95% of the housework. He's better at cleaning than I am and can do it much more efficiently, so it makes perfect sense to divide duties this way.

We both work full time, I earn c 20% more than he does and have more of a 'career' than him (but he does have a good, well paid job).

We don't have kids though. If we did, he would be the one to look to go part time / SAH if necessary.

But we prove that it's perfectly feasible that a working man could do >= 50% of the housework.

I'm afraid both my marriages ultimately broke down because neither of my husbands did anything and I was effectively a single parent in every respect whilst working full time and earning more.
It made me incredibly resentful and I thought why does having a penis....a piece of flesh, give you the right to treat me like an unpaid servant.
I prefer to live alone now because I'm not having it. Maybe if I met someone not so entitled I'd give relationships another go.

If you are looking after babies and toddlers then house work needs to be split!!!! Preschoolers are harder than near on any other job!

However I do think for the all the talk of equality all it means is that women now take on the bulk of the child related issues AND have to bring in an income. I don’t think even in the fairest of households we as a society are equal yet. But we have to keep striving !