To think my manager could have been a bit more understanding?

[Onceandforallitsallfine]

Got a formal warning from my manager for being late to work this morning. All ready to go out the door, DD asks for a quick drink of milk, quickly got her a cup of milk and next minute she pours it all over me causing me to have to get changed again and then be late for work.

@Alloverthegrapevine

DH is an Army Cadet instructor. He teaches his cadets that if you're not 5 min early, you're late.

Good for him

It's always great to get a man's perspective

As many people are in the office 5-10 minutes before start time so they can get a cuppa, login etc, 15 minutes late could mean you probably spent more than 15 minutes getting changed which sounds odd. (I'm assuming you had to iron your clothes if it took that long?)

Yikes that is harsh for such a rare occurrence.

Does she have an axe to grind or is she strict with everyone?

Possibility different industries but this wouldn’t raise an eyebrow at my workplace, people often stay late past finishing time so the time is made up.

I could easily be 15 mins late if I had to change - miss the first bus and have to wait for the second.

Also if the milk had spilt on my top and soaked bra as well, but the next clean top was white and I couldn’t find a nude bra/I had had on trousers but had to take them off and put on a skirt and find tights without holes, then different shoes because the previous ones didn’t go...maybe I’m just really bad at this sort of thing but I would probably have been a lot later than 15 mins!

Is there a formal handover taking place from one shift to the next? Or are you in a front facing role like reception where you'd be the only person on hand to do the job? My working environment has always had a 5-10 minute unspoken buffer zone that staff adhere to. However, at one point it started getting ridiculous to where some people seemed to be trying to 'one up', by coming in 35-40mins early 🙄. It made no actual difference other than to try and show how 'committed' they were to the boss, whilst sitting about drinking coffee. But on the other hand they were never the one's willing to stay an extra 5mins if it was needed (when management left). Although 15 mins can be massive if taking over from someone on a night-shift who needs to leave for a bus/childcare. And I'd imagine in that case anyone you were taking over from wouldn't be pleased and would speak up.

I'd hate to work anywhere that was so inflexible. If they demand your presence on the dot every morning, I'd certainly be leaving on the dot at the end of the day. Clock-watching works both ways.

Clock watching inflexible managers leads to clock watching inflexible staff. No win long term. Of course certain jobs require exact punctuality but perhaps those jobs are even under pressure with Covid - no grand parent help, extra cover, neighbour / friend help etc.

All those saying you should show up 15-5 mins early. How do you do that of nursery opens at X time and you have Y travel from there? Travel time is also very unpredictable right now.

All those questioning 15 mins. Once you’ve spent the extra 2-3 mins you thought you had to give the milk, and then the spillage. You probably try to wipe down, make the decision new clothes are needed, I don’t have many go to outfits that fit these days after being penned in at home for months they’ve shrunk, so easily 20 mins if it were me! Likely needing to get the iron out too!

Manager definitely unreasonable based on your info. If you’re always late, perhaps they are less patient and warranted.

YANBU. The manager is ridiculous. How on earth do companies think they can get the best out of workers when they are so petty and treat employees like little children.

This. I have no time for my last workplace, but they were good about things like that and wouldn't have cared less about someone being 15 minutes late.

I think as others have pointed out, we can’t really judge as we have no idea about your circumstances, but it doesn’t matter what we think. What matters is what your manager thinks and they were obviously not happy about it. Maybe have a think about it all and create strategies so this doesn’t happen again.

I’m in a client-facing role, so I really cannot be late. I aim to get to work 15 minutes early, but I add another 15 minutes to my travel time as buffer time in case of roadworks or faffing. I’m lucky that my work starts at 10am.

@3cats

I’m in a client-facing role, so I really cannot be late. I aim to get to work 15 minutes early, but I add another 15 minutes to my travel time as buffer time in case of roadworks or faffing. I’m lucky that my work starts at 10am.

I’m client facing. I would never ever want to turn up late, but sometimes it happens. Do you have children? Life happens, to me and senior people I meet it work with. One manager has a motto ‘Family first’ - employee mental health, renter Jon and performance is very high!

*retention not renter Jon! Lol

Office work can also have very tight schedules if reports have to be out by a certain time.

In my department there are certain jobs which have to be started by a particular time to mean that the job is completed on time. If my assistant was late by 15 minutes then I would have had to start his jobs, all the time waiting to find out if he was even going to turn up.

I would already be thinking how to reshuffle my day to mean that I could get his work and mine done. If he then waltzed in 15 minutes late then I would be having some fairly harsh words. If 15 minutes late was on the back of other slack habits then I would be thinking about the disciplinary route.

Leave more time for getting to work. When I had young children I’d often be sat waiting in work car park for twenty minutes but that was preferable to being late...it was in case of unforeseen issues such as this. It is not work who is at fault here. (I have never been late for work, in decades of working). I also have got earlier trains etc. Same for school, never late even when I had three under three plus primary age to deal with. Obviously true emergencies like Car crashes are different.

meh - there is a process for formal warnings. Either it's not a real formal warning or this was the last straw.

Presumably you weren't leaving your daughter alone if she can't get her own milk? if you're leaving home and it's that tight for time, it's someone else's job. How long have you been back at work after having DD? It's a tough lesson to learn, but it's vital. You have to work as if you have no children and parent as if you have no job.

Can you check with HR if this warning is like points on your licence and will disappear if there are no further instances?
Or, is it that they're looking for any reason to get rid of people and a warning is the first step?

Good luck with it all.

and since the Army man's perspective is so eyerolling for some: I used to be in the army and am not a man and this:

DH is an Army Cadet instructor. He teaches his cadets that if you're not 5 min early, you're late.
This is a load of bollocks. If you're 5 minutes early or 1 minute early you're early.

is how the Army works. If you're not 5 minutes early you're not ready to go at 0900hrs (or more likely 0500hrs). It is the same for jobs with a start time - you should be at your workstation, all ready to go at your start time. (all those sighing about flexitime: if OP was your bus driver you'd be really ok with her rolling up 15 minutes after your bus was due to leave, or you think being sitting in the bus with the engine running at her start time is better?)

Seems ridiculous to me. In my office, people are often 10 minutes late on a regular basis (parking is pretty bad). Noone minds because those same people often stay late until all the work is done over month end as people actually feel happy enough to do that.

Harsh. Are there other issues? Are you taking several sick days?

I do agree with others that you were cutting it fine though. If your child is being dropped off on the way, have a drink to go. If someone is in the house with her, they get the drink. Get a bit more organised.

“@Alloverthegrapevine
DH is an Army Cadet instructor. He teaches his cadets that if you're not 5 min early, you're late.

Good for him

It's always great to get a man's perspective”

And who wouldn’t want to give their employers 22 hours of their life for free every year by doing this ??

Were you late many times in 2019?

I assume your manager is following guidelines?

I’m suggesting a back story here.

I love the new 'see all OP's posts' function because it saves scrolling through. You can see from the start that the OP hasn't posted again on their thread. Thanks MN!

My point (and his) is, if you're walking through the door at 9am, you are late. You need to be at your desk at 9am.