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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think knowing about food and being able to cook are key life skills?

356 replies

Notcontent · 16/07/2020 14:16

This is something I strongly believe in, but I think that notwithstanding various small-scale initiatives to teach young people and families about healthy cooking etc the lack of skills is getting worse not better.

I was listening to a Radio 4 programme the other day about child food poverty and they were talking to some young people - one of the teenage girls talked about the fact that until recently she couldn’t cook anything)no and I also had little idea of what a normal meal should be.

This seems such wide-spread problem. So many people think of food as being readymade, processed things that you unwrap and eat.

I think that there should be education about this at schools as obviously many people are not getting these skills at home. It’s so important - eating is what keeps are alive.

OP posts:
timeisnotaline · 18/07/2020 09:29

There is no way my kids aren’t going to cook!! We made our own birthday cakes as soon as allowed, and cooked regularly. Enough that my parents went on a trip a 24h flight away leaving 19 year old me in charge of 4 younger siblings and knew we would all eat fine. Well, 19yo me didn’t cook a lot of meat, but a week in my younger sister threw her toys out of the pram and bought a leg of lamb and roasted it. I still remember the amazing casserole I made with the left overs.

I’m under 40 by the way, this is not growing up in the dark ages. My dc are going to be able to cook! Mil will be blown away by the idea teenagers can cook food Grin

SnuggyBuggy · 18/07/2020 09:32

I'll probably sound like a 1950s housewife but I think it helps when your kitchen is your domain. I moved back for a bit after uni, I didn't lose the cooking skills I'd gained but I just didn't like cooking in my parents kitchen with them hovering about so I rarely did it. As soon as I moved out I started again.

Nefelibata86 · 18/07/2020 09:43

Thanks all for your suggestions.i have a 4 ingredient cookbook and will definitely make use of the BBC website and magazines. My partner enjoys cooking so I've let it fall to him and now realise I've become deskilled.

LaurieMarlow · 18/07/2020 09:44

Does anyone know the reasoning behind binning home ec and replacing it with food tech?

Even the name seems so ‘off’ to my ears. Food is about so much more than tech.

MotherWol · 18/07/2020 09:45

If anyone here is wondering what they can do to fix this, there are several really good charities working in this area that work with communities to teach cooking and nutrition. The Square Food Foundation, Food for Life, The Clink, and they’d all appreciate your support.

I used to volunteer with a small local charity that worked with children from low income families, cooking lessons were just one of the things we did. there are many more across the country doing similar. If it matters to you, do a bit of research, find out what’s already happening in your area, and support them with your time, money or skills.

lazylinguist · 18/07/2020 09:54

Does anyone know the reasoning behind binning home ec and replacing it with food tech?

Makes it sound like a more 'skilled' subject, maybe? I don't think 'home ec' was a better name tbh. Most kids would wonder what 'home ec' actually means. And even once you do know, it sounds more like housewifely drudgery and make do and mend than learning how to cook interesting and delicious food!

SchrodingersImmigrant · 18/07/2020 10:08

@Nefelibata86

Thanks all for your suggestions.i have a 4 ingredient cookbook and will definitely make use of the BBC website and magazines. My partner enjoys cooking so I've let it fall to him and now realise I've become deskilled.
Don't worry and go for it. I am pretty confident and 99% of time good cook, but that 1% is usually very memorable 😂 I managed to create things my husband just refused to eat. And I agreed with him😂 Mistakes happen, don't let it deterr you
MitziK · 18/07/2020 11:26

@LaurieMarlow

Does anyone know the reasoning behind binning home ec and replacing it with food tech?

Even the name seems so ‘off’ to my ears. Food is about so much more than tech.

Using language and topics to improve accessibility to boys and, moreover, their parents.

As a subject, many schools and parents were still saying 'Boys do Woodwork/Metalwork/Technology/CDT/DT and Girls do Home Economics and Child Development' into the 1980s.

Home Economics suggests, to the casual listener 'How to be a Housewife'. Food Technology, however, or the titles of qualifications such as Food Preparation and Nutrition, sounds more gender neutral. Which is as it should be.

Graphista · 18/07/2020 11:27

Well, yes it is. But thatchers govt started the decline in proper cookery lessons at school while also creating circumstances at home that made it difficult if not impossible for this education to be done in the home.

We're now at a point where many current parents of teens/early 20's weren't taught nutrition, meal planning, budgeting and cooking themselves and are therefore unable to teach their dc and we STILL don't have decent, proper cookery lessons in school!

I was very fortunate to have a mum and 2 grans who were not only excellent cooks and bakers themselves, they also had (due to being from very poor working class backgrounds and big families to feed so the food had to stretch - glasgow Catholic, grans raised in without sugar coating "slums" and mum born into same though thankfully moved into "modern" housing before age 5) been taught/learned budgeting well and how to make every mouthful go further. Plus they had the time and patience to teach me, my siblings and cousins.

In addition when I was at school (I'm 48) thatchers policies hadn't quite worked through to my school year, iirc it was the year 2 years below got hit with withdrawal/reduction in decent cookery classes.

Plus we were still being taught by the "old school" cookery teachers, so were taught the fundamentals (sauce basics, pastry, bread, stock...), nutrition (I had a teenage moment of "enlightenment" when I realised mum didn't cook a wide variety of different veggies and cook seasonally just for fun! That it was to ensure we got different vitamins and minerals and the right ones for the season d'oh!), budgeting, time management, catering to different dietary requirements (I went veggie after school but this was my first introduction to it and the teacher carefully explained about ensuring nutrients not gained from meat were gained from vegetarian sources)...

We were taught knife skills, although obviously didn't do this at skill we were taught things like safe freezing and other storage techniques.

I've been repeatedly shocked and saddened as a mum and as a volunteer working with youngsters that so many of my dds age (19) and thereabouts have been taught by nobody how to make even a very basic dish like pasta and pesto and don't have the confidence to even attempt.

I even have one friend (about10 years younger) who she and her family live on ready meals and takeaways mainly as she's terrified that if she tried to cook something she'd prepare it or cook it wrongly and poison them all! This is something now deeply believed by her.,

I've had children under my care at guides/scouts who until camp had never seen a raw unpeeled vegetable, didn't know chips were made from potatoes, were afraid to use knives, kettles, even toasters!

Which brings me to another issue - parents who are ridiculously over protective when it comes to children dealing with hot/sharp things.

As I say dd 19 and until very recently (last year) she had friends from her year in school that weren't ALLOWED to use a kettle or sharp knife at home!

As a mature student myself I had an experience where I realised out of a large household of the younger students NONE of them knew how to cook from scratch and they were getting into financial difficulties due to spending on convenience foods and takeaways AND were very run down healthwise as nobody had explained to them the importance of a healthy diet, food groups, nutrients etc

I ended up by starting them off with a notebook of simple "recipes" (I put recipes in quotes as it's a very loose term for what I did here as it included things like directions to make pesto pasta, making stir fried but using ready made sauces & straight to wok noodles to "ease them in"), then that turned into "but I hate veggies/x veggie" where I ended up explaining about nutrients, food groups, the connection between food and health.

I'd get phone calls when I was at home with dd "I'm making x and it looks weird is it supposed to look like this?" Etc

What was bewildering was these were intelligent, well cared for kids with relatively well off families yet for some reason their parents hadn't thought to prepare them for adulthood.

Not only cooking, they didn't know how to do laundry, plan a budget (inc bartering and shopping around, how to assess if a special offer was worth getting), clean!

I left home at 17 due to abusive father, but both parents had also prepared me with years of cooking, budgeting, sewing, knitting, diy and other common sense skills. Mum even had me plan and shop for (with their money of course) a few weeks worth of groceries, checking I could quickly assess a special offer, plan to cover all meals and snacks plus non food items etc and she says she still worried I wouldn't cope!

I was fine, if overwhelmed at first!

@MaskingForIt I had to teach ex to cook too PLUS he was RIDICULOUSLY fussy when we first got together. As were his siblings (he's youngest of 4) his mum totally mollycoddled them all on food! I managed to not only teach him to cook but also eating and trying a far wider range of foods

@THisbackwithavengeance I get what you're saying but YouTube etc is not the same as having someone there reassuring you you're doing it right, that yes the sauce/pastry etc is supposed to weirdly look like THAT at this stage in the process (YouTube and other online videos/images aren't necessarily going to look like how it does in your home/pan!), that builds confidence in newly developing skills.

Online tutorials also can't really teach anything regarding smell/taste eg when teaching dd I'd do things like have her smell something "on the turn" so she'd know what to be aware of when checking if something is fresh. A recipe can look ok and match an online pic but taste lousy and YouTube won't be able to tell that disappointed/heartbroken new cook why!

You do know that we now have schools that don’t have cooking facilities on site for school dinners? The meals are delivered. and even the ones that do rely heavily on convenience items!

I was lucky to grow up in an era where schools not only had cooking facilities but the school cooks could actually cook! I saw the cooks starting at the start of the school day if not earlier and be peeling veggies, prepping (fresh!) fish etc

It's absolutely abysmal this is no longer the case!

Also not every child HAS a decent, safe, non chaotic home life with parents able and willing to teach them. What about kids in the care system? Kids with addict parents?

My home wasn't ideal either I was just lucky this aspect wasn't affected, many others were and that can really knock your confidence and resilience.

The friend I mentioned that's 10 years younger she grew up in a group home, the workers didn't have the time or resources to teach cookery.

I absolutely think it's NO coincidence that the disappearance of decent cookery lessons and school dinners times in with the rise in childhood obesity!

@maxelly it might not solve the obesity crisis completely but I'm betting it would help a lot! Dd has had overweight friends complain to her they're fed up of being overweight and don't understand why they are as they "don't eat that much" and she's (not always too subtly! Had to rein her in on that!) pointed out that while they may not be eating much volume wise WHAT they're eating is high in fat/sugar/calories, so many of them didn't even know about calories! Or that eating chips and chocolate daily will likely make you fat! Some even asked why she is so slim despite doing the same things as they do/eating at the same places, but

1 she has a disability that means she has a very high metabolism and actually struggles to maintain a healthy MINIMUM weight - usually cues questions about what a metabolism is, why this means she's slim etc we've actually also learned that high fat/sugar foods don't actually help her gain/maintain weight. A high protein diet works best.although a good amount of healthy oils do too

2 again due to her disability (these foods irritate her gums and stomach) she hates deep fried foods and chocolate, so if they all go along to McDonald's she'll have a burger but salad instead of chips.

Now I'm overweight and understand it's more complex than simply knowing what a healthy diet is, but that certainly helps at least a bit!

If I didn't know I believe I'd be much fatter than I am!

If you can read, you can cook.

Mine are only 8 and 3 but I've always baked with them and when DD gets a bit taller and can reach the oven I'll be teaching her basic cooking skills can you not see you’re contradicting yourself?

If “you can read you can cook” why does your child need to be able to reach the oven and have you teach her in person?

Someone who hasn’t been taught won’t necessarily know what “sauté” or “roux” or “until onions translucent ” means if nobody has shown them.

Why should the government pay to teach people how to cook because it’s in our society’s best interest? For health, for the economy, for social coherence?

Equally, the lack of education around personal finance seems a bizarre decision totally agree! It’s why I fully support Martin Lewis in his efforts to have personal financial education become part of the curriculum.

Again, I was lucky my parents taught me some of this, some I learned myself but lots really would have been better taught at school within maths lessons.

And yes, precarious finances affect people's confidence to cook too! If your budget is tight it's understandable to be reluctant to experiment and risk wasting precious food budget.

We has a mini "apartment" in the cookery dept where everyone got chance to spend a day. We had to plan shop and cook a meal and invite teachers to eat. had a similar set up in one of my schools (army brat), a "fake house" with kitchen, dining room, sewing room and craft room as we were taught as part of home economics not just cookery but dressmaking, making and repairing various craft based materials, how to properly lay a table etc

Cookery books all assume some skill or knowledge. exactly!

@LondonJax we did home ec cookery lessons every week throughout the school year until we took gcse options and I did it at gcse level too. 2 lessons a week, one would be cookery one sewing etc

things that have a practical application NEED to be kept in the curriculum. I agree but many are NOT in the curriculum at all at the moment

You can buy all these things in the pound shop. Which still requires our fictional novice cook to HAVE those pounds! We have 100,000's of families in this country don't even have that spare!

I don’t see this as an addition for teachers, but that something should be deprioritised for it. I’d say this is more important than an awful lot of what’s taught in schools these days
Totally agree

LaurieMarlow · 18/07/2020 11:38

Food Technology, however, or the titles of qualifications such as Food Preparation and Nutrition, sounds more gender neutral. Which is as it should be.

Nutrition is okay, if a little worthy.

Food technology is goddamn awful. To approach food through a ‘technological’ mindset misses the vast majority of what’s engaging about it.

EBearhug · 18/07/2020 12:19

Food technology is goddamn awful. To approach food through a ‘technological’ mindset misses the vast majority of what’s engaging about it.

I think it depends on the focus and who you are. I like thinking about cookery in terms of chemistry - big light bulb went off in my head, learning about raising agents - and physics - ways of heating - and so on. I like knowing that the reason my fudge went grainy is all to do with long- and short-chain molecules. But lots of other people will have already glazed over by now.

SnuggyBuggy · 18/07/2020 12:34

It's a dreadful subject and a real shame as there is so much good stuff we could teach kids like nutrition, quick and easy home cooked meals, how to batch cook, how to use leftovers and how to cook on a budget. Instead we get taught useless crap like designing microwave meals and packaging. If anything it normalises processed food.

seven201 · 18/07/2020 13:00

@SnuggyBuggy

It's a dreadful subject and a real shame as there is so much good stuff we could teach kids like nutrition, quick and easy home cooked meals, how to batch cook, how to use leftovers and how to cook on a budget. Instead we get taught useless crap like designing microwave meals and packaging. If anything it normalises processed food.
That's not what gets taught where I teach. The food and nutrition subject is part of my department, although I don't teach food. They don't do any packaging or microwave meals. They learn how to cook healthy meals from scratch. Things I've seen them make gone in to steal some: spag bol, salads, fruit salad, stir fry, risotto, falafel, sushi, jerk chicken, samosas, curry. Year 7 is a lot about core skills (using the grill, hygiene, safe chopping skills etc). In ks3 they learn about nutrients, the eat well guide, portions, the cost of ingredients. I think a lot of schools are like that now.
LaurieMarlow · 18/07/2020 13:02

Instead we get taught useless crap like designing microwave meals and packaging. If anything it normalises processed food.

You’re right. It’s just so wrong headed.

campion · 18/07/2020 13:10

@LaurieMarlow
Does anyone know the reasoning behind binning home ec and replacing it with food tech?

Yes I do.
The introduction of the National Curriculum in 1990 left home economics hanging by a thread as there was no actual provision for food teaching. Kenneth Baker,Education Secretary didnt see a place for it. After some lobbying it was shoehorned into D&T which was itself undergoing a huge change.

Food tech therefore went all sorts of different ways; some good (thinking, problem solving, analysing etc), some not so good (designing packaging without also making the product, pointless weeks of differentiating a pizza, low skill practical work etc). Taught well with innovative ideas and a clear rationale Food Tech needed no justification. Too often it was non specialists picking up the timetabled groups. This wasn't helped by the collapse of specialist teacher education.

Increasingly Food is becoming a discrete subject,moving away from Technology as such. The 'new' Gcse is a definite improvement.

Sorry you think Nutrition is a 'little worthy'. Why do you think that?

Bluemoooon · 18/07/2020 13:16

I wonder if the teenagers who were interviewed could run the hoover round, strip and change a bed, keep on top of the laundry, help in the garden - from what I read on here teens do v little of anything in running the home.

WorraLiberty · 18/07/2020 13:42

@Bluemoooon

I wonder if the teenagers who were interviewed could run the hoover round, strip and change a bed, keep on top of the laundry, help in the garden - from what I read on here teens do v little of anything in running the home.
Which again, is down to their parents having really quite low expectations.

Some just don't recognise they need to teach their kids these life skills.

Yamashita40 · 18/07/2020 14:06

I'm quite a hands off parent with our eldest who is 12 as I think it's the only way he's going to become independent. He got up late today and came down and asked H to make him poached eggs on toast. I said thats a meal you can easily make yourself. But then you think am I not being a nice parent if I don't make him a meal (we'd already had our lunch). He can make basic meals like beans on toast, eggs, pasta and sauce (from scratch sauce).

I think the lessons they have in school now have gone a full circle as the cookery he's done was all about cooking food and he made practical simple meals like pizza, scones, bolognese etc

I remember Jamie Oliver saying you're going to have to eat three times a day for the rest of your life so you may as well learn how to make food tasty.

Neither me or my husband were taught to cook by parents but I lived alone from 16 and used my trusty Ainsley Harriott book to learn. My H is now a very good cook but didn't start til his early 20s. His mother was a really bad cook and there are still some things he can't bring himself to eat as he remembers her really bad versions. Like we had shepherd's pie last night and he had something else! It was actually lovely as well.

I do think some people like my mother in law are just not able to cook as she had enough practice, she's just really bad at it.

BogRollBOGOF · 18/07/2020 14:06

There is a minority of neurodiverse people who have co-ordination difficulties for things like using a knife safely, or attention/ working memory issues that make it harder to follow the stages of a recipe and manage timings. It isn't always as simple as "if you can read, you can cook"
That said, combining frozen vegetables, meat, a jar of sauce and pasta while not being a contender for Masterchef, is a nutritious meal and practical for most people to pull off.

Where people haven't been exposed to cooking, it is harder to find out about what you don't know. Not impossible, but it is an additional barrier.

In the 90s, cookery shows were everywhere. Delia Smith did a back to basics "How to cook" series and book. Now there are a lot of shows about food, but the likes of Masterchef in its current guise and Come Dine with Me are not instructional and a lot of that "how to" content has disappeared.

Youtube is a great addition to books, but is variable in quality. I tend to use BBC Good Food as I find the style very clear. I have some older books that I occasionally use. I was brought a great book when I was 10 that started with equipment, vocabulary, boiling an egg and covering a great range to making 80s dinner party classics with attractively piped mashed potato Grin

Getting functional, unpretentious cookery back on TV (and catch-up) and the likes of Sure Start courses are a great way to demystify cookery.

My school experience was about 2 recipes a year in KS3. I remember making pizza, ice cream, bolognese, and an apple crumble done in pairs... I got the microwave version to compare with my partner's oven recipe. Not very useful! For schools, time, resources and budgets are a massive impediment.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/07/2020 14:08

"To give you an idea how things were in the 60s.."

I was born mid 1950s and was cooking some meals in the 1960s:

What enabled this for me:

  • parents who both cooked well and let me help
    I picked up cooking without realising I was being taught

  • it was normal for kids then to help more with household chores, like cooking, washing, cleaning as they got older
    also for pre-teens to help out by going to the local shops on our own for a few ingredients

  • normal for kids to be allowed to use the kettle or sharp knives

My parents cooked standard British food, with a couple of Arab dishes
When I went away to uni at 18, I became aware of quick & easy Chinese & Indian food and just bought a couple of v cheap little recipe books
My parents had given me the tools to be able to easily follow new recipes for different types of dishes

My mum also gave me a couple of big cooking books as birthday & Christmas presents,
which included very basic detail (more than I needed) as well as elaborate dishes

SnuggyBuggy · 18/07/2020 14:08

Some parents assume their kids will "just pick things up" when it comes to all sorts of skills that at least some kids need directly teaching. Also if the parents don't demonstrate that they value something they can't assume the kids will appreciate that it's important

BigChocFrenzy · 18/07/2020 14:15

Also, it was a necessity to cook:

after my dad died, I grew up very poor
So we couldn't afford eating out, or buying the limited processed crap available then - only a tiny fraction of what there is today, anyway

My mum cooked to provide decent meals when I was a kid,
then when I went to uni, I lived entirely off my grant & holiday jobs

So even if I'd been prepared to eat processsed shite or fast food, I hadn't the money
Hence I cooked for myself

LakieLady · 18/07/2020 14:31

Until I was nearly 18, the only thing I knew how to cook was scrambled egg. We didn't do cookery at school, and my mother never taught me. (Actually, she taught me one thing: vegetables that grow above the ground go in boiling water, vegetables that grow below the ground go in cold water).

But I like eating, so I bloody well learned. There weren't endless cookery programmes on tv, Delia hadn't written her "How to cook" books and the internet wasn't even a notion, but I still managed to cook a perfectly nice Christmas dinner for 6 on my first Christmas after leaving home at 19. I still have my 1974 Good Housekeeping cookery book and it's still my bible for anything I don't know how to do.

MIL is a dreadful cook and not interested in food. We've taken her to some lovely pubs that do great food and she always orders ham, egg and chips if it's on the menu. Three of her 4 children are the same, but DP loves his food and is a great cook.

Anyone with a decent sense of taste, some common sense and access to the internet can learn to cook. I think people who aren't that into food are likely to lack the motivation though, which is fair enough.

Nutrition is a different matter, but how hard is it for someone on an average income or higher to manage to eat their 5 a day and not overdo it on fats and sugars, ffs?

Lack of time is a bit of a weak argument, too. It takes me 15 minutes to make a carbonara from scratch, and knock up a salad; 10 minutes for an omelette. Things like casseroles can be cooked the night before and reheated (and always taste better the next day anyway, imo). I do the same with pie fillings, then defrost pastry the next day, put it together when I get home and the pie cooks in the oven while I do the veg.

Kpo58 · 18/07/2020 15:15

Lack of time is a bit of a weak argument, too. It takes me 15 minutes to make a carbonara from scratch, and knock up a salad; 10 minutes for an omelette.

Isn't it nice for you to be someone who doesn't take half an hour or so to find the ingredients and chop up all the vegetables needed for whatever you are cooking. Not everyone is really fast at doing all the prep before you even turn on the oven/hob.

I can see it being very difficult to learn how/teach others to cook if you are poor. There is a good chance that you don't have internet access to watch all the YouTube videos on how to cook, or zoom them in fully if watching on a mobile.

There is a good chance that you won't have the various tools and pans needed or the random herbs and spices which you also don't know which can be substituted by others that you may have.

You also may not have the money to waste on random ingredients that you may never use again or if dish does come out inedible.

There also can be the nervousness on if the food is cooked enough so that you don't accidentally give your family food poisoning. Unfortunately a book or video won't tell you. Only a person can.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 18/07/2020 15:21

Seriously. How many people do you think do not have a single pot, because looking by this thread, guess would be about third of UK...

These but Olympics are getting bit ridiculous.

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