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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think knowing about food and being able to cook are key life skills?

356 replies

Notcontent · 16/07/2020 14:16

This is something I strongly believe in, but I think that notwithstanding various small-scale initiatives to teach young people and families about healthy cooking etc the lack of skills is getting worse not better.

I was listening to a Radio 4 programme the other day about child food poverty and they were talking to some young people - one of the teenage girls talked about the fact that until recently she couldn’t cook anything)no and I also had little idea of what a normal meal should be.

This seems such wide-spread problem. So many people think of food as being readymade, processed things that you unwrap and eat.

I think that there should be education about this at schools as obviously many people are not getting these skills at home. It’s so important - eating is what keeps are alive.

OP posts:
cafesandbookshops · 20/07/2020 09:02

@timeisnotaline

The only thing I would caveat here is it is hard to learn to cook well if you’ve never really been exposed to decent food, and have no idea what goes into it. There are people who would find it very challenging to go into a supermarket and find onions and garlic and courgettes- to identify them. To know which bits to eat and which to throw away. It would be hard to learn when every single part of every step is learning. Of course it can be done, but from a disadvantaged background it can be hard to do.
I agree with this because I was brought up in a household in which my parents hated cooking. We weren't poor but my parents worked very hard (12 hour shifts and I spent a lot of time at a childminder's) and weren't interested in cooking. Our weekly shop as teens consisted of my parents taking me to the supermarket and telling us to choose 5 microwaveable meals for that week. At the weekend, we would eat out.

They are getting slowly better now that they have a bit more time on their hands, especially my dad, but I have really struggled to teach myself how to cook as an adult and I can only cook a small number of meals. I still get flummoxed by going to the supermarket and getting the 'right' things and not being afraid to make mistakes when cooking.

I am moving into a new property this week and have a month off over summer and am determined to learn how to cook properly. I ordered some second hand cook books from The World of Books and splashed out on a slow cooker/steamer.

Rumbletumbleinmytummy · 20/07/2020 09:09

I wholeheartedly agree.
I'm by no means Gordon Ramsey in the kitchen, but do find myself quite shocked at the amount of people who I know who cant cook so their kids end up eating oven baked shite like chicken nuggets and chips each night.
It's quite easy to see why we have a massive obesity problem given that there are quite a few children out there who only know food to be processed shite.

I do think that a certain level of the blame should rest on parents though. I'm sorry, but as a parent I've had to learn to cook. I've not always had much money but that's all the more reason to learn how to stretch the food budget.

Maybe the government could roll out an initiative with Jack Monroe, teach adults who cant cook how to cook a set of reliable, easy, cheap and nutritious dishes, and whilst they're at it, if they could overhaul the school cookery lessons, all the better. Most of what DD has learned to cook at school is cake, which is great, but given that many of the children in her year group have parents who dont cook, is not giving them life skills that they are in sore need of.

bluefoxmug · 20/07/2020 09:27

I have a bit of hope for the 'cook from fresh' boxes that are popular right now.
we got a few to try, and they were delicious. and ridiculously easy to follow.

Bluemoooon · 20/07/2020 10:48

I think if people don't know these things they do a good job of hiding it as they don't want to be found out so feign lack of interest.
I have found that adults who can't read do NOT want anyone to know. Their self-esteem can be v low.
And they certainly wouldn't gain much from recipe books.

timeisnotaline · 20/07/2020 14:03

@cafesandbookshops don’t feel bad! My dh is solidly middle class well educated ate home cooked meals... but had nothing to do with preparing them ever. I found him throwing the bok choi leaves in the compost and cooking the stems ie the wrong way around, throwing cubes of cheese into a stew to simmer as he’d confused porchetta the cured meat and pecorino the cheese, many other examples.
Obviously he is a solid cook now, but I didn’t give him much choice Grin

Graphista · 20/07/2020 14:54

@40andginger! Wow! Your posts on this are absolutely FULL of the self righteous, smug, narrow minded arrogance of a new parent. Your child is only 3? Are you working full time? Are your finances and health & fitness ok?

There ARE many reasons why a parent either long term or temporarily might struggle with this which HAVE been pointed out on thread and yet you REFUSE to acknowledge that it’s NOT simple for everyone because it is for you!

That’s an unfortunate commonality on mn too - posters who think because something is easy for them it’s easy for everyone.

I’m willing to bet there are basic life skills you cannot currently manage - nobody’s perfect!

I’ve said I am/was lucky enough to be fairly knowledgable and usually confident in this area.

However, I have ocd and at times have been too ill to cope with even shopping! Let along cooking a meal! I felt so guilty (and people like you make this worse for people like I was at those points!) at feeding dd a combination of takeaways, meals eaten out, ready meals and “picnic” style food. We had a social worker at these points and the 1st one had me keep a food diary, whereupon it became clear to her and me that actually even with my “workarounds” dd was still getting enough calories, her 5 a day and other nutrients. She was perfectly healthy nutritionally speaking and indeed appeared so, didn’t balloon in weight or anything.

Plus as several op have pointed out to you it can feel too risky if you’re on a very tight budget to “experiment” by making something your child may not like. That’s certainly a position I’ve been in too! And I’ve stuck to the (thankfully fairly wide range) of foods I knew dd liked and would eat. Not to mention that some ingredients while cost per use is low the initial outlay is beyond that of families barely managing.

How about you try to find even a LITTLE compassion and empathy? and park that smug self righteousness until you’ve fully raised a child

Your post at 0932 yesterday is frankly disgusting and disablist and I’m disturbed it’s either gone unreported (I’ve now reported!) or undeleted (mnhq have a somewhat muddled approach to disablist posts against the mentally ill!)

Re children in care - there are approximately 100,000 AT ANY ONE TIME. When you take into consideration those that have recently “aged out” that’s a hell of a lot of children barely being cared for, you’re right it’s a whole other thread!

Also that doesn’t take into account the children left living in “chaotic” families, mainly because taking a child into care is expensive and as a result the threshold for doing so is pretty damn high!

That statistic also doesn’t take into account the families in extreme poverty, relying on foodbanks etc. Again a whole other thread!

While historically the working classes were more likely to cook (my mum still remembers being sneered at in the 70’s by mc English army wives for making her own soup rather than using tinned) I think the cheapness of not only the food (which is VERY cheap! Many families would be hard pressed to manage to make eg a meat lasagne inc the gas/electric for less than 90p a portion!) but also the cooking method (microwaves use very little electricity) is why often poorer families now err towards convenience foods.

I just think we should prioritise skills for living first. The other area that I feel should be covered in schools, far ahead of most of the curriculum is personal finance. totally agree! Schools now especially in England are far too focussed on preparing pupils for academia rather than for the wider world, very few children need the former while they all need the latter!

@snuggybuggy I agree this nonsense of “adult food” and “children’s food” needs to stop! I never differentiated with dd even at weaning stage she almost always ate the same as us minus salt and strong spices, the only times she’d have a different meal on the same day as we were having were on the rare occasions we had a takeaway or we’re going out for dinner without her.

It’s a personal bugbear as it also made it harder for her and I to eat out as she got older as SO MANY places the “children’s menu” was bloody ‘chips with everything’ and most refused to replace the chips! And as I’ve said dd hates chips, they hurt her she can’t eat them. Plus the other items were usually things she couldn’t eat too. So many restaurants are ridiculously intractable when it comes to customers wanting even a SLIGHT change! They really should just offer half portions of the adult menu.

“But onion and garlic and these absolute basics? Nope. Just no. Not knowing how to cook it? Ok.” I know quite a few people who’ve made the error of cooking a whole BULB of garlic not knowing that a CLOVE is one of the segments, I know lots of people that throw away many perfectly edible parts of fruits and veg, I was very much enjoying being part of the “frugal foodies” threads on here early in lockdown and learned some new stuff myself. I bet you don’t know EVERYTHING about every possible ingredient!

My own mother, who is a fairly competent and confident if basic cook, would not attempt a stir fry and there are certain vegetables she has never cooked with as they are “exotic” to her - I’m talking things that to those of us in younger generations (she’s in her 70’s) are now perfectly normal fare - baby sweet corn, tenderstem broccoli, fresh chilli peppers...

Confidence is a HUGE part of it.

WorraLiberty · 20/07/2020 15:58

@timeisnotaline

The only thing I would caveat here is it is hard to learn to cook well if you’ve never really been exposed to decent food, and have no idea what goes into it. There are people who would find it very challenging to go into a supermarket and find onions and garlic and courgettes- to identify them. To know which bits to eat and which to throw away. It would be hard to learn when every single part of every step is learning. Of course it can be done, but from a disadvantaged background it can be hard to do.
One of these days supermarkets might invent labels that have writing on them?

And hold on for a few years longer and someone might invent the internet, which teaches people which bits to chop or throw away.

Fingers crossed.

40andginger · 20/07/2020 16:50

@graphista
Make excuses all your want! If people can't or won't look after their kids they should not have them or make arrangements

Graphista · 20/07/2020 17:08

Being ILL is NOT an "excuse" stop being such a disablist bigot

Rumbletumbleinmytummy · 20/07/2020 17:23

@graphista - completely agree.

MitziK · 20/07/2020 17:40

@Rumbletumbleinmytummy

I wholeheartedly agree. I'm by no means Gordon Ramsey in the kitchen, but do find myself quite shocked at the amount of people who I know who cant cook so their kids end up eating oven baked shite like chicken nuggets and chips each night. It's quite easy to see why we have a massive obesity problem given that there are quite a few children out there who only know food to be processed shite.

I do think that a certain level of the blame should rest on parents though. I'm sorry, but as a parent I've had to learn to cook. I've not always had much money but that's all the more reason to learn how to stretch the food budget.

Maybe the government could roll out an initiative with Jack Monroe, teach adults who cant cook how to cook a set of reliable, easy, cheap and nutritious dishes, and whilst they're at it, if they could overhaul the school cookery lessons, all the better. Most of what DD has learned to cook at school is cake, which is great, but given that many of the children in her year group have parents who dont cook, is not giving them life skills that they are in sore need of.

I've seen her recipes and there was the things on Daily Kitchen, This Morning and something sponsored on Instagram. You'd put people off cooking for life with the almost complete absence of basic skills.

Why not use BAME chefs for a change, instead of creating more jobs for more MC white people?

SchrodingersImmigrant · 20/07/2020 17:46

Maybe giving JM the show would stop her from mistreating future pets for publicity🤔

Agreed though. I checked out her recipes and there would be many more chefs who could do better job.

Ginfordinner · 20/07/2020 17:55

Is there a market for a cookery show on TV where people could learn how to make simple dishes? Or is there a better platform for this that would appeal to young people starting out on their independent lives?

I know when Delia did her How to Cook series it was hugely successful, but then she was absolutely slated for her How to Cheat series.

I find that I get a lot of inspiration from Facebook, but I probably get cooking videos on my feed because I have liked pages related to cooking.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 20/07/2020 17:59

@Ginfordinner

Is there a market for a cookery show on TV where people could learn how to make simple dishes? Or is there a better platform for this that would appeal to young people starting out on their independent lives?

I know when Delia did her How to Cook series it was hugely successful, but then she was absolutely slated for her How to Cheat series.

I find that I get a lot of inspiration from Facebook, but I probably get cooking videos on my feed because I have liked pages related to cooking.

The thing is that it's on the platforms already. There is just so. much. of. It. So much. I am pretty sure I could find something even on pornhub🤦

There has never before been easier access to any information you can imagine and even information you even cannot imagine.

Problem is that one can make the best show about basics ever, but one cannot make people to look at it🤷🏻

WorraLiberty · 20/07/2020 18:04

The thing is that it's on the platforms already. There is just so. much. of. It. So much. I am pretty sure I could find something even on pornhub🤦

That's absolutely true. TV and the internet have been saturated with this sort of thing for years.

Also, I think if schools really stepped up their cookery classes (even if they could squeeze them in), the number one 'but' would be "But many families can't afford the ingredients' and sadly for many that would be very true.

So browsing the internet and cookery shows for dishes you can afford and you know your family will eat, makes much better sense.

Ginfordinner · 20/07/2020 18:12

Also, I think if schools really stepped up their cookery classes (even if they could squeeze them in), the number one 'but' would be "But many families can't afford the ingredients' and sadly for many that would be very true.

I went to school in the 1970s. All the girls (yes it was just girls back then Hmm) did home economics for the first three years of high school. It was a bog standard comprehensive with a mixed demographic. So there were pupils from poor backgrounds and pupils from not so poor backgrounds. I don't recall anyone not being able to afford ingredients for the dishes we made.

Are we as a country poorer now (pre covid) than we were in 1972?

TorysSuckRevokeArticle50 · 20/07/2020 18:17

What happened to school cookery classes? When I was in primary school and early secondary doing cookery class we made cheap basics that could actually feed people. We would make enough to take home for dinner.

Shepherds pie
Veg lasagna
Country style light fruit cake
Chocolate mousse
Trifle
Cheesecake
Chilli con carne

When I started 'food technology' we started researching sandwich fillings from different cuisines and making nutritional value labels, marketing and branding mock ups.... no actual cooking for 2 years beyond a few sample of different sandwich fillings which were usually binned.

WorraLiberty · 20/07/2020 18:17

I'm absolutely sure either way, it would be the number one 'but', Ginfordinner.

On MN anyway.

MitziK · 20/07/2020 18:18

@Ginfordinner

Also, I think if schools really stepped up their cookery classes (even if they could squeeze them in), the number one 'but' would be "But many families can't afford the ingredients' and sadly for many that would be very true.

I went to school in the 1970s. All the girls (yes it was just girls back then Hmm) did home economics for the first three years of high school. It was a bog standard comprehensive with a mixed demographic. So there were pupils from poor backgrounds and pupils from not so poor backgrounds. I don't recall anyone not being able to afford ingredients for the dishes we made.

Are we as a country poorer now (pre covid) than we were in 1972?

Apart from rents and house prices being within reach of most people's budgets, schools (and Home Economics, along with things like Woodwork/Metalwork) were better funded, as they were seen as having value, so it was common for teachers to have the budget to slip the poorest/most disadvantaged children some ingredients. Or kids just didn't turn up on those days.
Rumbletumbleinmytummy · 20/07/2020 18:20

@mitzik great question. Jack Monroe came to mind only because I saw some of their recipes, and I found them easy and cheap to make and I think that would address two issues that are a barrier to cooking for many.

NerrSnerr · 20/07/2020 18:24

My parents didn't really cook and certainly didn't teach us. Until I left home I didn't realise that you could make macaroni cheese from scratch and thought it only came in tins. I have taught myself and my children help me bake and help do very basic things like spread the butter on sandwiches (they're 5 and 3). I'm still not perfect and rely on a lot of convenience food but I am expanding my repertoire and the children are happy to try new things.

Graphista · 20/07/2020 19:45

Are we as a country poorer now (pre covid) than we were in 1972?

I think we are in terms of this as housing prices as a percentage of household income are WAY higher

XingMing · 20/07/2020 20:54

Housing costs have been problematic for all of the 40 years I've been paying attention. I do think that in the SE and pretty coastal areas that property prices have raced way ahead of affordability, and that as a result, there are far far too many families living in accommodation that only barely meets the standards of battery hens. If you live in a studio/hencoop with minimal faciltities, and no decent shopping in walking distance, then you are likely to eat anytjing that gets the job done and bellies filled. But I spent three months last year with a building site kitchen, and a two burner Calor gas ring, and we ate passably... but mainly because I cooked simpler versions of what we would eat anyway.

I learned to cook from my mum (who couldn't cook at all when she was married in 1955 at 20) but who cooked school meals for 2000 students four days a week, and did the City & Guild Hotel Catering Diploma on the Monday, once I went to secondary school, on a day release scheme. The tipping point in all of this, is.... knowing how food should taste. If you haven't ever eaten really good well cooked food, you don't know the starting point, and you aren't likely to learn in a ramshackle B&B without a proper kitchen that's all SS can find for you. My DS is just off to uni, but he has worked in catering for two years before deciding on further study, so he is going to be able to get paid work for 20 hours a week at a restaurant or pub. If they are open for customers of course... nothing is certain right now.

Ginfordinner · 20/07/2020 21:17

Yes the housing costs is a good point. I recall that a large number of fellow pupils lived in council houses. Not so many of those these days.

That's an interesting point you make @XingMing about people not knowing what good food tastes like. I was lucky as my mum was an excellent cook - she had a Cordon Bleu diploma. Both my sister and I like good food, and we like to cook good food, so does DD who has been indoctrinated from a young age by all the cookery shows that I watch on TV.

XingMing · 20/07/2020 21:47

@Energem

You probably dont work in london.

Anyway i get what you mean which is reasonable but also the impression that spag bol and fish fingers dont make the cut and it needs to be slow cooked meat off the bone with vegetables etc daily which thousands of families would love to but dont have the time.

My local Lidl has slow cookers for 6-8 portions on sale for £20 several times a year. You put in cheap ingredients, an onion, a carrot or two and a bit of celery (all chopped up please) with a bay leaf, some stew meat, maybe a few beans, salt and pepper and some water, before you leave for work, on a very low temperature, and when you get home, you taste it. If it's a bit dull, add a teaspooon of salt, a chili, a dollop of yoghurt, and do the spuds or rice. It won't win Michelin stars but it is cheap and healthy. Puree it for the baby.
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