UK citizenship application - friend wants me to be a referee and say I've known her longer than I really have

[northernstar0412]

Hi,
A friend from overseas who is applying for British citizenship asked me to be a referee.

My job is included in the list of acceptable occupations but I have only known her for 2 years and 8 months. The government's website says we need to have known each other for at least 3 years.

My friend said - "You can just say you've known me longer - how can they prove it?"

I can be fined £5k or receive a prison term if I knowingly give false information, according to the official website. So I told my friend I was happy to be a referee but I would be stating on the form that I'd known her 2 years and 8 months.

She doesn't want to delay her application for four months and is now looking for another referee, but doesn't know many people here.

Am I BU?

I wouldn’t lie about this either.
Is there any reason why she can’t hold off on the travelling for an extra 4 months?

@MulticolourMophead It's entirely possible you've been checked up without knowing.

They've checked up on how long, down to the number of months, I've known someone in an office of 500+ staff? Sure. And I bet they got GCHQ and MI5 involved to listen in on my conversations with them to verify if I really "know" them or it's just a passing acquaintance.

Genteelwoman, that's what I suggested to my friend - that she made it clear on the form that there was no one else to vouch for her.

I would also state that I'd known her for 2yrs, 8mths.

I hope that they'd be able/willing to exercise discretion and approve her case. However, I think that if she could wait a few months, she'd have a better chance of getting her application approved.

I don't know her all that well, really. I met her on holiday in 2017 and we stayed in touch as we live in the same city. We've met up socially a few times but I haven't seen much of her for the past year.

I do feel a bit sorry for her as she's been through a rough time and I would like to help - but not to the extent where I'm willing to risk getting a criminal record.

I used to work for the British government (not in immigration) and we were always checking up on people.

@TooGood2BeTrue

She hasn't lied on the form though, has she? So far she has merely asked her friend to claim that she's known her for 32 months instead of 36. What exactly is the crime here if OP refuses to be a referee? I can see a lot of closet racists on this thread.

No one knows what is on the form so no one knows if she has been truthful or otherwise. But common sense says that someone who is willing to ask a friend to lie for them, just for the inconvenience of waiting a couple of months to go travelling is possibly someone who is also willing to be a bit elusive with the truth on other matters too. Who knows, I don't but I wouldn't want to risk £5000 on finding out if my friend asked me to do it.

And why do you think it is racist? You don't know the origins or ethnicity of anyone on this thread. Are you perhaps assuming the citizenship applicant is black and everyone else here white? You could be right, or again, you could be wrong, the citizenship applicant could be white, and every responder black, or the citizenship applicant could be white and every responder white.

Granting citizenship of any country is a huge deal which is why people apply for it despite it costing scads of money in the UK. You don't give it to anyone without checking they are who they say they are because you are scared of being called racist.

PlanDeRaccordement - good point. Thanks.

As of right now, the appointments for citizenship applications have been paused for those who didn't apply before the end of May so they can get through the backlog from the shutdown and the application states that it's likely a six month wait time to getting a result without including that delay. Four months onto that will be annoying when so close, but it's not like she can rush this.

I do think with the background checks we have to agree to that referees are a bit of an out of dated way of proving one's good character and many do struggle to find one of an appropriate profession if not generally in those circles, but it is what it is. It's unlikely there is going to be any changes to that or the fees before next March anyways (that's typically when fee rises happen).

There really isn't a good reason to put you and herself at risk with something that can't really be rushed at this time anyways and with the protections indefinite leave to remain already give. You're not being unreasonable to want to be honest even if she's right in that no one would check.

Also, for those going on about reporting her for her less than stellar behaviour, if the Home Office can't do their job of vetting someone while having their fingerprints, biometric face scan, and background checks, what is an anonymous tip going to do?

Noway. Tell her i didnt know you lobg enough to be a valid referee. Do not lie for her.

I have a close friend who had noone to countering her newborn's passport.

The combination of British professionals, who had known her for 2 years with a valid passport was difficult to come by as her professional friends were mostly non-British (worked for an Amer and those who were hadn't known her long enough. GP's and health visitors were no longer allowed to sign either.

She did call to the Passport office and was told if she couldn't find anyone who had known her long enough to get the person longest to sign and state how long they had known her. I think it was just over a year. She also included a cover letter explaining the situation.

They did conduct checks, but to ensure the counter signatory was indeed a professional but were not concerned with the length of time they had known her. She was granted the passport within 2 weeks.

I think being honest helps a lot. It leaves the decision in their hands. Lying really just messes things up. The thing is you know exactly when you met her and when questioned would say so. Someone else would probably roughly remember it as 3 years and so when questioned would respond appropriately. It's the discrepancy that's the problem. Being honest is your best bet.

YANBU there's a reason only selected professions are eligible to sign these type of forms - you are expected to be trustworthy.

These things are checked up on. I signed someone's passport form . They lost it and obviously decided to forge my signature on the replacement form. I subsequently got call at work asking about my signature and sending me a copy of what I had allegedly signed. The passport authorities knew it wasn't my signature!

You absolutely should not even consider this. I would be reluctant to sponsor anybody or give a reference to somebody who had asked me to lie. If she's asked you to lie how many lies is she telling herself. Don't get involved.

I wouldn't be giving her a reference in 4 months time either in your position.

They absolutely do check up on these things randomly, which if this was the case you would then either have to lie again over the phone or tell the truth that you had lied on the form, neither are ideal.

Exh has a number of friends that I did this for over the years, they did check up with some, others not.

The calls were detailed, they had obviously done their research and were checking up on things like how long you have known them, full name, how you know them etc.

Please don't lie and put yourself in this position, especially as you don't know her that well.

I don't know her all that well, really

So why is she asking you at all - or more to the point, why hasn't she got anyone else to ask?

I think you have 2 options: either tell your friend to wait 4 months, or sign the form, saying you have known your friend since MM/YY. In the latter case, the Home Office might be lenient and accept this, especially since they might not process her form for another 4 months anyway. However, what happens if the Home Office don't accept it? Best case scenario they'll ask your friend to supply another referee's details. Worst case scenario, they'll reject her application and she'll have to go through a lengthy appeals process or submit a new application (and pay another £1300). Ask your friend what she prefers.

Genteelwoman - thanks - that is very helpful.

They expect you, as a professional, to have some supporting evidence of when you met them,

So if it was at work, then you;d probably check their join date

if it was on holiday, you;d know the date of that.

If it was when you were kids 19 years ago, you know 100% its over 3 years so the month/year is not important (and i have done them for friends where i have said i have known them since at least YEAR, as i can see we were at a party together then/tagged on fb etc)

so part of the being a professional is ensuring you can back up your position. so on that basis, i would refuse to complete until its over 3 years. As you are signing your statement as of NOW.

This rule is stupid and unfair (very discriminatory in term of social class) and I hate it (it can be such a pain as well when applying for a first British passport, even for people who are born and bred British), but I think YANBU.

Your friend will struggle to get her application through (the Home Office is very much Unreasonable on such matters), she would be much better off waiting a few months so that everything can be done by the books, with you as a referee.

I am one of the professions listed on these forms and can't tell you how often people have asked me to say I've known them for longer/know their boyfriend, child etc who I have never met etc etc. Every time I politely decline and when (the rude ones) they push I then very firmly explain that I am absolutely not willing to risk my profession etc and they should not be asking me to lie.

So why is she asking you at all - or more to the point, why hasn't she got anyone else to ask?

As PPs have said, its difficult to find citizenship+profession combination, especially if you are a "new kid on the block"

@Puzzledandpissedoff

I don't know her all that well, really

So why is she asking you at all - or more to the point, why hasn't she got anyone else to ask?

The rules are really difficult when you considet nationality, time you have known them and the list of acceptable professions and being over 24.

My referees were two teachers from my school, so I hadn’t seen them since I was 16 and I wouldn’t say they knew people. The people who actually knew me either weren’t in jobs considered worthy or weren’t British citizens.

@northernstar0412

Genteelwoman, that's what I suggested to my friend - that she made it clear on the form that there was no one else to vouch for her.

I would also state that I'd known her for 2yrs, 8mths.

I hope that they'd be able/willing to exercise discretion and approve her case. However, I think that if she could wait a few months, she'd have a better chance of getting her application approved.

I don't know her all that well, really. I met her on holiday in 2017 and we stayed in touch as we live in the same city. We've met up socially a few times but I haven't seen much of her for the past year.

I do feel a bit sorry for her as she's been through a rough time and I would like to help - but not to the extent where I'm willing to risk getting a criminal record.

I used to work for the British government (not in immigration) and we were always checking up on people.

Exercising discretion?!? From the Home Office?!?

Now you CLEARLY have never had to deal with them in immigration/naturalisation stuff.

I wonder why she doesn’t want to wait another 4 months. It might well be because she is worried about brexit and any applications being out in the back burner (they already are btw).
But don’t fool yourself that her application will go through with 2 years 8 months.

Btw if you refuse and she doesn’t have anyone else, she will have to wait. Because if she is refused, she will loose the £1000+ application fee.

I agree @SimonJT. The rules are extremely hard. I would struggle too.

Alaimo - good idea.

Puzzledandpissedoff - she has no one else that fits the criteria - and I won't fully fit the criteria for at least another few months.

I don't think she has many other British friends - her other friends are not UK citizens or are retired, so would not meet the job/professional requirement.

So why is she asking you at all - or more to the point, why hasn't she got anyone else to ask?

Have you seen the perfect referee combo you must have? Most people would find it hard to find acceptable one. You don't want to send it and then be told it's wrong. You don't get money back for refused application. It's about £1400 just to apply. Doesn't include Life in the UK test, English test and solicitor (if needed).