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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

UK citizenship application - friend wants me to be a referee and say I've known her longer than I really have

241 replies

northernstar0412 · 16/07/2020 14:14

Hi,
A friend from overseas who is applying for British citizenship asked me to be a referee.

My job is included in the list of acceptable occupations but I have only known her for 2 years and 8 months. The government's website says we need to have known each other for at least 3 years.

My friend said - "You can just say you've known me longer - how can they prove it?"

I can be fined £5k or receive a prison term if I knowingly give false information, according to the official website. So I told my friend I was happy to be a referee but I would be stating on the form that I'd known her 2 years and 8 months.

She doesn't want to delay her application for four months and is now looking for another referee, but doesn't know many people here.

Am I BU?

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 16/07/2020 15:01

No you shouldn't lie. She will have to wait or find someone else.

Given her attitude though I'd be asking myself if I really wanted to act as a referee when she is eligible to ask you.

alexdgr8 · 16/07/2020 15:03

one's job obviously comes into it.
she is being asked to sign because she is a member of some professional body. if she misuses that credibility, by lying on an official document, her professional body may decide she has brought their body into disrepute and expel her.
many jobs are contingent on being a member of a professional body.
and even if she then tried to change careers, her name would always be linked with that disgrace; not an endearing characteristic to future employers.
and i would not want someone like this applicant as a fellow citizen. she cares nothing for the laws of our country, nor or trying to corrupt someone and placing their career in jeopardy. just milking the acquaintance to her own ends. no moral care at all. and for no exigency, merely to continue travelling the world.

QueSera · 16/07/2020 15:03

Don't lie on a form like that - it's just wrong.

ThePlantsitter · 16/07/2020 15:05

I think morally it's on a par with saying your kid is younger than they are to get into a theme park (i.e. not that bad).

Practically, though, it could open up a world of pain for you op and you shouldn't do it. Some things you can't dodge, like council tax and parking tickets.

MulticolourMophead · 16/07/2020 15:06

People lie on these forms all the time, I guarantee you they don’t check.

Yes, they do check.

I signed something for a colleague, all above board and legit, and was called and asked questions about what I'd signed. They said they do check up more than people think.

TooGood2BeTrue · 16/07/2020 15:07

Can't believe those posters who have suggesting reporting her! That would most likely lead to her application being refused. The processing fee for a citizenship application in the UK is over £1,300, whether it is successful or not! I would ask the friend if she has tried her GP or a teacher at her child's school because those are also acceptable referees.

CoffeeAndWhisky · 16/07/2020 15:08

Quick question: How can you pinpoint when you first met on a month? I have no idea when exactly I met someone, to me "roughly 3 years" would be perfectly fine (unless I can pinpoint it).

That being said, that combined with 90 day travel limit lie, I would probably also back off (and I am naturalised - my referees knew me for way longer than the required limit, before I get accused of cheating the system!).

2bazookas · 16/07/2020 15:09

Take a look at what you do and don't know about this person.

You haven't known her very long , and apparently, not very well.

You now know she's willing to break the law In UK and worse, involve you in fraud.

You don't know what other shit she might be involved in, either in UK or elsewhere.

You don't know whether her citizenship application includes any other lies and shady misrepresentations that could come to light and involve you.

The very fact she is willing to risk YOU acquiring a criminal record, should be a big red flag warning you not to give her a reference. Either now, or in four months time.

66redballons · 16/07/2020 15:09

Tell her to ask you again in 4 months

Bateshotel · 16/07/2020 15:10

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Loveinatimeofcovid · 16/07/2020 15:11

@MulticolourMophead how does that count as checking? It’s not like they asked you to send a signed copy of your practice certificate or something?

LondonJax · 16/07/2020 15:12

Well it's certainly not a 'deniable error' for a start.

If the form says you need to sign to say you've known the person for 3 years and you know you met more recently than that, you can't say 'oh, sorry, my mistake' - you'd blatantly lie. It's like I know I met my friend around 12 and a half years ago as we met through the parent and toddler group - DS is now 13 year old. So I could say I've known her 12 and half years but couldn't be exact. I couldn't say I've known her 14 years as DS wasn't born then!

Plain and simple it's a case of 'sorry, I can't lie. I'm not paying £5K if I'm caught out' and that's it.

Livpool · 16/07/2020 15:12

She needs to wait.

I used to work in that department and they do checks - and people easily slip up

SockYarn · 16/07/2020 15:12

Either she waits four months until you HAVE known her for three years, or she finds someone else.

It's not worth the risk of lying.

ukgift2016 · 16/07/2020 15:14

Just ask her to wait. It's not long is it.

plainsailing01 · 16/07/2020 15:14

@northernstar0412 Wow. Seriously? It's only a matter of 4 months. No one follows up or checks these in detail. Everyone who's telling you otherwise is clearly full of sht and doesn't know what they're talking about. As a director, I've filled these in for a few folks who've worked for me over the years and not once* have they ever emailed me/followed up etc.

I think YABU and I really hope your friend finds another referee who doesn't act like she's the archbishop of canterbury about to anoint the next monarch!

ThePlantsitter · 16/07/2020 15:14

[quote Loveinatimeofcovid]@MulticolourMophead how does that count as checking? It’s not like they asked you to send a signed copy of your practice certificate or something?[/quote]
They absolutely do check on the person signing. Well, they do for existing UK passports and I'm certain the standards for naturalisation are not less exacting.

2bazookas · 16/07/2020 15:15

Can't believe those posters who have suggesting reporting her! That would most likely lead to her application being refused.

  IMO  we should refuse citizenship to applicants who deliberately  lied on their application  form or produced fake references. That indicates contempt for  UK law and a willingness to break it.
alexdgr8 · 16/07/2020 15:17

the more i think about it, the more i think you should consider reporting her, maybe anonymously.
she spends her time travelling the world.
has plenty of funds. wants uk citizenship for ease of entry.
is dishonest and tries to make you so.
who is she. what is she. you don't really know.
what if her name/alias and face appeared on a front page after some murderous outrage.
how would you feel then.
basic risk assessment: likelihood remote; but poss harm off the scale.

safariboot · 16/07/2020 15:20

You know perfectly well it's breaking the law, and immigration fraud is taken seriously too. Of course you shouldn't lie on immigration forms!

On the other hand I wouldn't be about to report a friend for merely thinking about breaking the law. I would simply discourage them from doing so.

CatsArePeople · 16/07/2020 15:20

she spends her time travelling the world.
has plenty of funds.

sounds like you're envious

viques · 16/07/2020 15:21

@TooGood2BeTrue

Can't believe those posters who have suggesting reporting her! That would most likely lead to her application being refused. The processing fee for a citizenship application in the UK is over £1,300, whether it is successful or not! I would ask the friend if she has tried her GP or a teacher at her child's school because those are also acceptable referees.
Good luck finding a GP who s willing to sign forms! And as for teachers signing stuff, personally I stopped signing passport applications when they bought in the regulation that you had to provide your own passport details on the application form. One thing signing a declaration on the back of photographs , another giving confidential information to someone whose only connection was that I had known the family by teaching their children for a number of years.

Applying for citizenship is a huge thing, conferring enormous potential social and economic benefits and legal status to the successful applicant , if someone isn't willing to wait an additional four months, and is also willing to ask someone to potentially lie and be imprisoned if caught I would wonder what other "economical with the truth " statements were being put on the application form.

PotholeParadise · 16/07/2020 15:23

You can't report someone for asking you to lie on a form. You just tell them 'no' and that's the end of it.

OP, absolutely don't lie. The Home Office is not a lax organisation, and they do check; in fact, they ask very detailed trick questions.

Apolloanddaphne · 16/07/2020 15:25

I would tell her that she either waits 4 more months or you can put down the exact time you have known her but you are not prepared to lie. Then leave the ball in her court.

TooGood2BeTrue · 16/07/2020 15:27

She hasn't lied on the form though, has she? So far she has merely asked her friend to claim that she's known her for 32 months instead of 36. What exactly is the crime here if OP refuses to be a referee?
I can see a lot of closet racists on this thread.