To say about bloody time? No DSS landlords breaking the law.

[Whatisthisfuckery]

A judge has ruled that landlords and letting agents refusing to let to people on housing benefit is unlawful.

It’s about bloody time it was made clear that it is not acceptable to discriminate against people who are on benefits. Housing is not just a privilege for those who are employed and able to work.

Obviously this clarification in the court will not solve the housing crisis, for people on low incomes especially, and much more needs to be done to make sure people have access to benefits without lengthy waits that then create rent arrears etc, but it’s a step in the wright direction.

www.bbc.com/news/education-53391516

If someone doesn’t want to rent to ‘blacks or Irish’, how are they going to prove the discrimination?

Indeed discrimination laws are often difficult to enforce.

There is, effectively, in that if you don't have a landlord reference you won't get a tenancy.

Conversely, there are no checks on landlords. They can be bankrupt, have criminal records, have been prosecuted for providing unfit housing etc, and there is no way for a tenant to know that. Jfc when I was renting I had to provide employer references, bank statements, landlord references the whole lot, but I got fuck all information about my various landlords. Most of the time I didn't even know where they lived.

It's very much unregulated.

I am b2l LL and have 6 rental properties. I never advertise as current tenants reccomend us to family and friends. I always ask to see reference from past LL and payslip and bank statement. In almost 8 years I have only ever had one tenant not pay rent and that was because family split up. I don't mind if some tenants are on working benefits but would not want to tent to a person who lived exclusively on benefits. I don't think this would happen because LA housing benefit would not pay amount of rent we charge. I think it would be more helpful to renters if LA had to inspect rental house every year to ensure it is up to scratch.

"You still own the bloody house, after all. What you are beefing about here is a bit of a delay in getting into it, while the person you evict has lost their home. Maybe a little perspective?"

Maybe that LL should say to their bank "sorry we can't pay our mortgage, you've got other money though, so just let us off for a bit eh? Oh, and we can't use any savings as they will be used to redo our flat that was trashed. Have some perspective Mr Bank.

I know landlords who are now considering terminating contracts to turn their properties into student lets where possible. A lot of agencies are tightening credit criteria and increasing deposit requirements/rents. This policy is not actually going to help DSS claimants.

Housing benefit needs to be paid directly to the landlord to improve conditions here (and doing this often serves as a rent control as rents often lower to HB level for most properties). Nothing else will make a difference.

The trouble is, you bring a blanket ‘must accept DSS’ without looking at the underlying issues - all the government are doing is encouraging more unscrupulous landlords who have substandard properties, dodgy insurance and other means of making sure DSS renters aren’t as much of a risk. Or they put their price up above DSS rates.

I do have sympathies with renting on benefits, and how difficult it can be. However I am worried about ‘good’ landlords being squeezed out by more unscrupulous ones by ill thought out blanket policies.

Fed up with scroungers (landlords) living off me while I work my fingers to the bone.
Don't rent their houses then.

If you need to rent because you want to buy then start thinking about why the banks won't lend you the money to buy, start complaining about that.

If you want social housing but can't access that then start challenging the reasons there isn't enough social housing capacity.

If all the private rental landlords disappeared it wouldn't automatically sort everything else in the housing market out.

As I've said before we would just keep our family home empty reducing housing capacity in our area.

Landlords here saying that they are not rich etc- you do have to have a lot of money to have a buy-to-let mortgage.

You can’t just buy a house in a cheap part of the country and rent it out to cover the mortgage. We’d all be doing it if that was the case!

My brother has a house (mortgaged not owned outright) that he can’t live in because of work- yet he isn’t allowed to rent it out. And he isn’t poor- he’s a doctor with a large salary.

So ignore all those saying that they are ordinary people who became landlords- you can’t unless you are rich.

The current problem with UC is that even when the tenant asks for the rent to be paid to the LL the council can say no.

My last tenant requested it because she has periods where she has depressive episodes. She loses track of money and ends up in a muddle. Her rent was always paid direct to me. Then she moved onto UC and an annoyingly-cheery and patronising chap declined her request so she could “learn”. Not only did that add to her general stress levels, but it made her feel awful. Funnily enough now that she’s in social housing (she left to move there, she wasn’t evicted by me or anything) they agreed to her rent going straight to turn. In fact they suggested it first

I’ve had far more hassle, and damage, done over the years got so called “professional” people. And the one that it took me months and months to evict for non payment was a high earner with a chip on his shoulder and a coke habit.

The place I rent out has various adaptions (it was for my Nana) and I find that the people who rent it long term, usually while waiting for social housing, treat it like their home. But I think key to that is that I fully expect to paint from top to bottom after each tenant, so they can make it their home. I also got laughed at once on a ll forum for how often I expect to change the carpets, but I find it’s better to budget for it and not need it than be one of those LL’s who has a tenant for 13 years then is surprised that the place might need work done

@WitchesGlove

Landlords here saying that they are not rich etc- you do have to have a lot of money to have a buy-to-let mortgage.

You can’t just buy a house in a cheap part of the country and rent it out to cover the mortgage. We’d all be doing it if that was the case!

My brother has a house (mortgaged not owned outright) that he can’t live in because of work- yet he isn’t allowed to rent it out. And he isn’t poor- he’s a doctor with a large salary.

So ignore all those saying that they are ordinary people who became landlords- you can’t unless you are rich.

It doesn’t mean people are rich. It just means they have a different mortgage company to your brother

Yeah no one is an accidental landlord. They might choose to rent their spare house out as the least bad option but it's never a case of "ooh, I've just found a house in my rucksack and somehow I've fallen on top of the people in it and charged them £1000 a month, how did that happen?"

Lyralalala-

Which mortgage companies give ordinary people buy-to-let mortgages???

@WitchesGlove

Lyralalala-

Which mortgage companies give ordinary people buy-to-let mortgages???

Halifax gave BIL permission to rent out for a year without changing his mortgage, then switched him on to one of their BTL mortgages.

A friend had a similar, 12 months then you need to change, deal when they moved in with their partner. I don’t know which bank though. She’s a nurse so not massively high earning in the rich category

I really hope this actually changes things and doesn't make it worse. The only reason I'm on HB is because I'm disabled, until I got this ill I worked and never claimed anything. It took me over a year to find this flat, and it's awful but I have to live here. There is no council housing anywhere near my town, I was told as I have no children it would probably take over 20 years to get a place however many miles away. I'll be dead by then. The hardest thing was getting any estate agent to even let me look at a place, in the year I was trying to move from my expensive London flat to be closer to home (cheaper area, more support) I managed to find one estate agent who let me look. At 3 flats. And the one who showed me round them candidly told me I'd be very unlikely to be considered.

I've never missed a days rent, or a bill, I leave places spotless. I have guarantors who own their own house outright, good references, no kids, no pets, don't smoke, don't drive so don't even need parking. But no one will let to me because of the dreaded housing benefit. My PIP was awarded for 10 years, ESA 3 years at a time, but still I'm a terrible tenant for one reason! I'm stuck in a place that is destroying me, it's so noisy and really inaccessible for me, I can't even get deliveries here. But I can't move. So I hope this changes things, I really do.

My sister pays less than a 3rd I do on rent for her mortgage, much nicer, larger, newer flat but I've had to accept I can never own. I wish retirement places would consider disabled people buying or renting flats, they all look so clean and accessible when listed but I'm too young

Something had to be done we are facing massive unemployment so more people will be relying on benefits than ever.
I still feel that something has to be done to protect landlords who practice within the law.

@LinemanForTheCounty

Yeah no one is an accidental landlord. They might choose to rent their spare house out as the least bad option but it's never a case of "ooh, I've just found a house in my rucksack and somehow I've fallen on top of the people in it and charged them £1000 a month, how did that happen?"

Totally untrue.

I had to rent out my house. I moved during the recession, left my mortgaged house while the bathroom was being fixed, rented temporarily myself in another town - then put my house on the market. No buyers at all. The estate agent advised that I had just missed the boat, that even people scooping up a bargain weren’t interested in my home. After 6 months, of having to pay rent and mortgage (as a single parent) I had to rent it out.

Which was the least bad option and I'm honestly not judging you for it. But it wasn't an accident. You weighed up the situation and made a decision. That doesn't make you a capitalist baby eating bastard, but it wasn't accidental either.

And actually on a policy level this is a problem - not your responsibility but a problem nonetheless - because this ad hoc provision of housing by people who have no impetus, motivation or drive to ensure quality or consistency of rental stock or security for their tenants - entirely understandably, as they are looking to their own interests - is no way to organise housing provision that is 33% rentier.

It was very simple for us to rent out our house without changing our mortgage, if we continue to rent it out after a number of years we would be moved to a BTL mortgage apparently.
The bank was happy to give us permission to keep our standard mortgage for a few years.

I think social housing should be revisited my grandparents lived in council housing their whole lives.
They worked hard as did their neighbors and the housing stock was decent quality.

“But the way to get real change there is if councils would step up to the plate and house people who are given notice instead of leaving landlords stuck with the expensive eviction process before the council bothers to lift a finger.”

I used to work with people exiting short term social housing programs (not in the UK so no directly comparable housing program). One thing I saw time and time again was that once we had been to the tribunal and got the warrant of possession (notice from us had been ignored), the tenant who had previously insisted that they needed long term social housing, single mum, must remain in expensive location, couldn’t speak English etc would miraculously start taking action, using appropriate support and successfully source their own private rental before the police turned up to evict them. It was also very common for them to apply for rentals with a male partner who had previously ‘definitely not been living at the property’ but all the children shared a last name with. I imagine councils choose to wait to offer any help because it filters out the people who really have no other options from those who can rent privately but for very valid reasons, would like the security of social housing.

I imagine councils choose to wait to offer any help because it filters out the people who really have no other options from those who can rent privately but for very valid reasons, would like the security of social housing.

It's far more to do with the lack of social housing. Councils are paying millions to put people in B&Bs and hotels. They wouldn't do that if it was just weeding out the small number of scammers because it costs an absolute fortune.

Why would you want a tenant who can’t get a job as opposed to one that has made the effort!?

Jobs are not as easy to get as you seem to think, especially in the current climate - it isn't as simple as just "making the effort"!

I've been unemployed, other than temp work for two years, and can't find a job, I suspect due to my age. Incidentally, I've been renting the same place for 17 years, the landlords/agents have no idea that I am now on a benefit and the rent payment goes through every fortnight by direct credit as it has always done. So if I were to apply to rent another place you think it's fair that I should be discriminated against because I don't have a job?

@GoldilocksAndTheThreePears I'm really sorry. It's awful isn't it. I'm in a similar position. I also have no children (not by choice) and health problems that count as disability. I stay with a man who's violent (who contributed towards my current inability to work) because of the lack of access to safe housing. The fear quite literally keeps me up at night. Why I'm not in bed now. I wish the same as you. I've also looked at over 55s housing. I wish there was more of it for disabled and long-term ill people.

I wish people on Relationships would read this thread. I've been accused of making excuses when I write about the housing issue. I've been offered refuge places but they're only temporary. Increasingly many have six month limits. I think I could eventually be well enough to work (if I'm able to overcome CV gap discrimination) but only with a safe home to be able to rebuild.

I've always paid my rent (even skipped lunch regularly to save money) and look after the homes. I believe the majority of fellow benefit tenants are like me. It's a sizeable group. The bad ones, who trash homes, etc are a minority (who the rest of us are scared of but often have to live amongst). The majority of us would never trash a home full stop but also wouldn't because we need landlord references. With children you'll be housed regardless of not paying rent or asbo behaviour (as authorities try to avoid the alternative of putting children into care) but it could be a dodgy b&b, often shared with men just released from prison. Without children you face the streets regardless of ill health. So a big incentive to get a landlord reference. We suffer twice. Being tarred with the same brush and also the likelihood of having no other housing option but to live amongst the very worse asbo violent benefits tenants stereotypes. All for the crime of being disabled (often after years of paying tax).

I agree also with the point someone made about the lack of landlord checks. Anyone, including people with DV and other violent convictions can be landlords. They have a key to your home and your personal details. It's incredibly vulnerable as a tensnt. I'd like to see something like DBS checks for landlords.

Why would you want a tenant who can’t get a job as opposed to one that has made the effort!?

As if it's that simple... Especially in the current climate.

There is much less risk in a tenant on long term benefits (say disability benefits as an example) that one that works in a precarious industry.

People joining the benefits system from redundancy or life changes have a much more difficult time keeping up to date with their rent that someone, like a PP, who has been on disability benefits for a long time.

Don't let that stop your ill-informed judgements though...

I agree also with the point someone made about the lack of landlord checks. Anyone, including people with DV and other violent convictions can be landlords. They have a key to your home and your personal details. It's incredibly vulnerable as a tensnt. I'd like to see something like DBS checks for landlords.

@plantlife Something similar to Scottish registration system is what is needed. It's not foolproof, but it's a damn good start.

The local council here had a voluntary scheme for the last few years. You could register with them as a LL. Show you charged fair rent, your property had all the appropriate certificates, show it was in a good state of repair etc and they would add you to a list where you were recommended to anyone who approached the council that couldn't be housed by them. In many cases the council would also assist people with the deposit.

LL's could also access the council repairs team for a reasonable fee, making them a bit of money. They would also act as mediators if there was any issues as well as help new/inexperienced LLs or tenants to know their rights and responsibilities.

It gave tenants locally a good indication of where a LL was at if they were prepared to be part of that scheme. Sadly it's being scrapped as the housing officers are all being changed around and cut due to cutbacks.