How to treat a cleaner fairly

[zazzyzaz]

We are looking to hire someone to clean our house on a weekly basis. I want to do it in (how I feel) is a more ethical way than just paying someone in cash for the hours they work. I'd like to have a contract with them which builds in holiday and sick pay and also pays a decent wage.

My husband thinks I'm being over-the-top. He says cleaners are self-employed so we shouldn't be taking responsibility for any extras. He says if we essentially become employers we're opening ourselves up to legal problems and more responsibility than we want to take on. I think it's only right to treat someone who is working in our home in the same way as we are treated (in our professional industries). More selfishly I also feel that we're more likely to have a higher standard of work my way!

I'm really interested to hear peoples' thoughts on whether me or my husband have the right idea and also any tips for treating cleaners fairly.

Compromise - pay them cash and offer to continue to pay to ‘confirm your slot still stands’ over holidays/sickness. - much like a lot of people have through the c-19 crisis.
Self employed cleaners factor in their own margins to enable them to have a holiday etc and those who are agency are already on the books and covered via employment law and should receive paid holiday etc.
I like your attitude though!!

Discuss it with your chosen cleaner. Just pay on time (no excuses) you can always add extra for Christmas bonus !!

Use an agency? Works well for me.

Your husband is right. If you employed them, not only would you have to pay holiday pay, you would also have to run a payroll, deduct tax & NI, pay employers ni, set up and pay into a pension, pay ssp, smp, draw up an employment contract.
Instead, set on a self employed cleaner, treat them well and pay above the going rate

I used to use a company which worked well. They sent the same cleaner almost all the time. I haven't re-engaged them since lockdown though as I now wfh so have gained 3 hours a day which may housework doable.

@zazzyzaz that’s a nice idea but can you afford or will you want to go for a second cleaner if yours goes on holiday or off sick? You could end up paying two wages if you still want the service.

Also bear in mind long term sick leave, what if you cleaner gets cancer or a broken leg? Might sound far fetch but there’s a difference between paying someone for a few days off with a cold or a few weeks/months off work.

I’m inclined to agree with your husband.

Pay for a second cleaner* not go

Complete overkill to have an employment contract, pay NI and pension for someone to clean your house a few hours a week.

I give my cleaner a large Christmas bonus which covers her days off over that period plus a bit extra and I've continued to pay her when she couldn't work due to corona virus restrictions as I feel that was extraordinary circumstances.

There's nothing unethical about engaging a self employed cleaner and paying the rate they request, I don't know why you'd think there was.

You can still pay cash and treat them fairly.

You can just pay as normal if off unwell, pay holidays and give a bonus at Christmas which is what we do.

I don’t have stupid expectations of her and make it clear she can have coffee and tea etc.

In return we have a trustworthy and loyal cleaner.

Lots of people are self employed (my dh inckuded), it certainly doesn't mean they're mistreated.

Mumsnet is giving me cleaner adverts now!

I agree with your DH, employing them yourself is a whole host of admin, faff and legal responsibility - you'd spend longer on the admin than doing the cleaning yourself would take, and there are all sorts of hidden costs of employing somebody.

Pay them a decent hourly rate that covers a bit extra for holidays/sickness.

Mine only comes four hours a week so I definitely wouldn't bother with all that hassle for such a short amount of time. You can still treat them fairly though by paying them for some of the weeks they take off.

I wouldn't do what you are suggesting as it's a logistical nightmare.

You can pay them 4 weeks worth of holiday pay if you want but I wouldn't get in to sick pay as I think you'll find that she will end up being 'off sick' alot. Maybe position it as 4-6 weeks holiday / sick pay, so there is an expectation that she's not going to come if she's got a streaming cold (or worse) but that she can also use that time for a paid week off.

Personally I felt that I was a good employer of a cleaner just by giving a generous Christmas bonus and turning a blind eye when she left 20-30 mins early sometimes as overall she did a good job.

Thank you for all the responses, really interesting.

To clarify I wasn't really thinking of setting things up officially on payroll or anything like that. I'm also happy to pay cash. I was more thinking along the lines of continuing to pay them if they were ill, for holidays etc.

I thought it would be good to have some sort of contract which states what we will offer and in return what we expect from them. I feel that would offer protection to us both: is that still overkill?

Yes - it’s overkill.

OP I think you sound really kind.

A contract wouldn’t be a bad idea as long as it’s explicit throughout it’s a contract for services not a contract of employment.

I doubt a cleaner would want a contract. It's quite a personal relationship. Cleaners never know at the outset, what a new client/client's home will be like. A few weeks in they might well discover that they're being asked to deal with something that they're not prepared to do. People can be disgusting. Being able to up sticks if necessary is a good thing.

@saraclara that made me laugh, an excellent point and one I hadn't even considered

I'm with your husband. Complete overkill.

Nothing to stop you continuing to pay whilst on holiday or off sick. Just don't commit to it because after the 5th holiday in as many months followed by a month off sick you'll be in a very awkward situation.

I expect anyone who is self employed to cost their time to include an element to cover their leave, short term sickness, taxes etc.
When it comes to cleaners, I’ve moved from ‘self employed’ cash in hand, to agencies, and finally to a small local company that employs people on proper contracts and pays them a proper wage and they have proper employment rights. This is the most per hour I’ve ever paid for cleaning, but I’m comfortable with this.

I do think it's slightly odd to want to do things in a more ethical way and yet be happy to potentially facilitate tax evasion by paying cash in hand.

A contract sounds a bit (lot) ott but you can just do it informally.

I pay my cleaners if they go on holiday up to 5 weeks in a year. I also pay if they are ill because - 8 years in - I know they rarely take sick days.

I imagine the fact I do that has a lot to do with them still cleaning for me 8 years on, and it also means they are always really flexible / will do that bit extra if we need them to.

It also makes me feel better than if I didn’t, so win-win.

Op I think you are really kind but I personally feel this is a bit overkill (I am a self employed cleaner).
I like to have my own flexibility with the arrangement and this to me would feel like a tie.
For the record people pay me in cash I provide a invoice for the work I carry out and then I deposit the money into the bank.
I complete my self assessment and pay any tax owed.

How to treat a cleaner fairly?
Pay on time. We don't mind the odd late payment but everytime and I'd sack you.
Tell them to help themselves to a drink and if you make a drink offer them one.
Go out while they're there if you can or at the very least, leave the room they're cleaning.
Give them a nice bonus at Christmas.
Don't talk to them like they are stupid.
If you're going away give them plenty of notice or better still keep them on to do a deep clean.
Do not, ever! message them the night before a clean saying you won't be needing them the following day, sure way to piss them off!! And they've lost money.

I wouldn't offer sick pay or they may be sick a lot.

Just be kind, generous, respectful, leave them a thankyou note every so often.

That's all really. Treat me right and I'll stick around.

Tbh most cleaners have their own contracts if they want to have them, if they dont then I doubt most self employed cleaners are going to sign a client created contract.

I used to employ a cleaner until we downsized to a tiny flat and made it not worth her time to come once a week for an hour (and there is definitely not enough to keep her busy for 2 hrs) and she had her own client contract covering everything with regards to holidays/sick time/hours/pay/agreed tasks/tasks she wouldnt do etc.

Definitely use an agency, then you don't have to stress about such things.

On a more human level, I'd leave her little presents for Christmas, Easter etc, occasional chocolates and stuff like that, just because I was grateful for her hard work.