To think we're all socially conditioned

[justaquerie]

Sometimes I feel as though the whole world has been hypnotised to comply with social norms and programmed to perform in a way that complies with their strict social conditioning and somehow when this happened I didn't get put under and am watching people bending over backwards to show how they are conforming and doing everything right as they are terrified of any judgement while looking for mistakes others make and highlighting them to the world so they can be shamed.

I completely expect to be told it's just me and that I must be some kind of rebel because it's weird to question it.

Nobody would argue we aren’t socially conditioned. Every society that has ever existed socially conditions it’s members, it’s how society functions.

And for all you think you’re such a cool rebel (because you don’t believe in social distancing by the sound of it?) I’m sure there’s a million ways in which you are as much socially conditioned as the next person.

@FourTeaFallOut

Well, quite!

For people who are into that sort of thing, I come up as INTJ on Myers Briggs, a personality type that doesn't value traditions or conventions. (I was never more aware of this than when I planned a wedding!)

But even I know that lots of them are valuable for providing ease, social equity, comfort and convenience. Challenging them to be replaced with nothing doesn't help anyone because it's incredibly useful to have a baseline of expected behaviour.

(though half the threads on AIBU wouldn't exist if people also couldn't intelligently set aside social norms to deal with a situation where they were inconvenient...)

Yes, we are a social species which ingrains it norms to the group and (dis)incentivises certain behaviours, sometimes contradictory ones, in multiple ways. Very few if any people fit all of them neatly even if we feel alone in it.

This can also be seen in most other social species.

Yes of course we are and if you think you're not, use the skills you're using to look at other people's social conditioning to look at your own, because it is there.

I don't like the fact it's normal for me to go to work and be treated like dirt by a boss who in return we have to respect because we work for his ego and his ego needs to be constantly reminded that he's more superior than the rest of us.

I do sometimes wonder why we put up with it but then bills come through the door and I remember why I don't mind the sexist bigot who mocks everyone's intellect to feel powerful and goes out of his way to be an arrogant dick because he pays my wages and so it's all worth it .

So I carry on smiling and agreeing with his not funny insults along with the rest of the team.

Im with you op, so long as you don't mean a conspiracy!

it is life here on earth really.
and capitalism, to some degree, although I always hold that we would have social hierarchies regardless our economic model. its just human, I guess, or a trait we have been perpetuating for eons....

I do look around me and wonder. I feel like I can see it too.
it depends upon what you want from life.....whether or not you jump in line and accept your 'role' as a participant.

a few 'lies' we are told:
we must have exciting lives, preferably more than one property, 2.5 kids, new vehicles, expensive clothes and goods, etc.

we buy into this under pressure. we want to be perceived as 'not failing'

many posts here about women who feel like failures if they aren't married by a certain age, or not having kids at certain time, not having the right 'husband with right job', not living in a NICE area, not living in an area with envied schools, not having got on the infamous property ladder in time!

the property one is the UK favourite.

read John Berger's early stuff about the power of advertising, it taught me far more about this subject than any philosophy could. ('ways of seeing' is a good book).

and it is a lie, it makes money fly around, it keeps us all competing at breakneck speed, it keeps us spending, running on a hamster wheel, and the faster we go, getting only a slight inch ahead.

I chose a simple life because I perceived this early on.
this does not make me better than those who didnt.
it just makes me different, or im simply not interested in 'keeping up' for what I perceive to be such little rewards.

I think it is harder to resist if you have children though, because we are naturally geared to want the utter best for them, and this can literally pull you into it.
Perhaps the way society is structured takes advantage of that innate love we have for our children, propelling us into line, defining what we will put up with, tirelessly work towards and seek to obtain. our drive to want the best for our kids is a marketers wet dream.

generally people don't like to step out of line and be different. its scary. they would prefer to be looked up to, admired, envied.

@GoodUserName I wouldn't expect anyone to put up with that, I'd recommend you have a good look round for another job you sound very unfulfilled.

So op, over 2 hours since your post and you haven't been back to debate or defend your radical ideas? Not so much of a rebel are you?

@knittingaddict

So op, over 2 hours since your post and you haven't been back to debate or defend your radical ideas? Not so much of a rebel are you?

to see things differently and write a fairly benign post about it is not what I would call 'radical'.

in fact your post proves her/his point perfectly.

people here must remember this is what people railed against in the 60's don't you?
the mamas and papas song 'make your own kind of music' was pretty much about this.
it really is not very radical or odd.

its just very unfashionable in our current era to challenge the status quo. thanks to the internet we now have such polarised way of looking at life - and the judgements and criticisms the OP mentions ARE actually rife in our current society.

so what, is it so difficult to ponder it?

I would imagine the OP is using word such as 'hypnotised' metaphorically, because it is a difficult concept to put into words sometimes.

Absolutely. People are intelligent alone but put us in groups and we become sheep

and am watching people bending over backwards to show how they are conforming and doing everything right as they are terrified of any judgement while looking for mistakes others make and highlighting them to the world so they can be shamed

the above quote from the OP is a fairly simple, social observation that not many of us could actually deny.
It neither smacks of radicalism, rebellion or conspiracy.

sadly calling people 'sheep', whatever their outlook, never solves the issue. true debate that helps us grow as a culture ought to be a little less antagonistic.

it'd be great if we took a few tips from the Dalai llama regarding how to treat one another when contemplating our opposing views. The poor fucker would get slaughtered on MN

I actually believe that this concept is where religion originated from thousands of years ago.

I believe the concept of ‘a greater being that lives in paradise and created the world’ was used as a means to control the masses.

If you do that, then you will not go to paradise (or whatever variations there are accrued the religions) and it kept the citizens under control. Obviously it evolved and branched out abd now we have hundreds of various of it.

These days it’s far less to do with religion and more to do with being scared for other reasons, such as a criminal record and the like.

across

This is literally the social contract. Did you sleep all the way through school?

few 'lies' we are told:
we must have exciting lives, preferably more than one property, 2.5 kids, new vehicles, expensive clothes and goods, etc.

Only on here would anyone think it's normal to own or aspire to owning more than one property

Well you're certainly not socially conditioned to return to a thread you've started. Other than that - hard to say. Because you haven't returned to the thread.

The op might be socially conditioned to withdraw when they feel challenged or, the op might be too busy fell-walking naked, looking for bugs to eat for dinner whilst playing a flute and and we might have underestimated her rebellion.

Well, yes. If we weren't socially conditioned no one would obey any laws and it would be anarchy

This is literally the social contract. Did you sleep all the way through school?

Beatrixpotter I may have misinterpreted you post, but I don't think the op is being radical. I also don't think they are rebellious either.

Personally I conform to things because they are sensible.

Follow the arrows around a car park - sensible if you don't want to have an accident.

Keep my distance from others in a pandemic - also sensible.

Not murder anyone - goes without saying.

Etc.

I'm guessing that the op thinks we are all sheeple and most people aren't or at least not in the sense that it is frequently used, to put others down.

Personally I've mostly followed the guidelines because I want to keep myself and others around me safe. I gave up listening to Boris weeks ago because I don't think he is worried about my personal safety and only I can do that. On one occasion we broke the law on CV because it was the only compassionate and right thing to do.

Sorry that's too much about me. I would like to know what constitutes someone blindly following the rules. Are they the ones who stay at home as much as possible, having food deliveries and working from home or are they those who go to the pub and hairdresser the instant Boris says they can, just because he says it? Who are the socially conditioned ones?

I would like to know what op thinks.

I agree op completely and one tactic used is intimidation, groups mocking people and making assessments of their intelligence ie if you have a difference of opinion are you thick or something? or intellectually challenged or are you ignorant or just plain dumb because you don't think like the rest of us did you even go to school? or don't worry about what they say they're not all there they think blah blah blah haha lol.

People will uphold their adopted views because non conformity will cause outcast and as social beings we don't want that so that fear is the best way to control us.
Nobody likes to have their intelligence mocked hence why they do it to others.
We're not supposed to view ourselves in a good light or we're seen as egotistic, entitled or 'special' so they just belittle others intelligence to validate themselves instead.
Of course this won't be a popular view because the majority of people reading will be those people and be offended by this truth so deny it adamantly.

Many people are adamant that they are not socially conditioned at all that of course they don't see race or sex because they aren't conditioned and advertising and expectations have zero bearing on them etc.

So why do they have the language and accent of where they grew up if their environment has no affect on you?!

I guess just no one wants to be seen as weak which following the crowd and being susceptible to peer pressure and marketing is often seen as. But it really is undeniable.

@justaquerie

Sometimes I feel as though the whole world has been hypnotised to comply with social norms and programmed to perform in a way that complies with their strict social conditioning and somehow when this happened I didn't get put under and am watching people bending over backwards to show how they are conforming and doing everything right as they are terrified of any judgement while looking for mistakes others make and highlighting them to the world so they can be shamed.

I completely expect to be told it's just me and that I must be some kind of rebel because it's weird to question it.

If people didn't comply with social norms or act in the way they have been conditioned to behave, then the fabric of civilisation would break down and there would be total anarchy.

There have always been individuals or groups of people who have pushed the boundaries of acceptable behaviour. That's why we have laws, and why we need the police and the armed forces.

If you work, are supported by a partner or claim benefits and have friends you are also socially conditioned.

People wouldn’t do it for love, they do it for money as we are conditioned for money to enable us to survive and thrive- man invented money, it wasn’t here before us.