To think that we are being forced into a cashless society?

[rockingthelook]

My parents really don't like to use debit cards, especially the contactless ones, however , due to C19 this seems to be the way forward? They like to take their money from the bank and use the cash rather than cards, really don't want to bank or pay for anything online because they don't trust it, but everything seems to be geared towards contactless. They had a walk today and wanted to buy a cup of tea from a takeaway cafe and couldn't, not only because the place wouldn't take cash, but the cards had to be contactless, and their cards aren't (they asked not to have this feature as frightened of them being stolen and used) It seems to be that the banks etc are using the C19 situation to force things through, my mum was even told by the cashier in the bank the other day to use the cash machine in the bank rather than get the cash over the counter because of the 'risks', fgs it's THEIR money, can't believe Age Concern/UK aren't all over this!

Then it's a business decision to move to a more reliable card processing firm, although it's more likely to have been a failure on the part of whichever employee was responsible for keeping the machine/software properly updated, i.e. user error rather than provider error.

It's very, very rarely user error! I worked in retail for years and our card machines conked out all the time. Yes, normally it was temporary but during busy periods it was a real pain in the arse.

They're dependent on internet/3G or some kind of phone line to operate and none of those things are infallible. If the card machine goes down, you had to first reset the internet, which meant nobody could use the tills to do anything - you couldn't even process a cash sale properly because the internet affected how the receipts printed off.

Then, if that didn't work, you had to ring the card machine operator to report it, while at the same time, someone else had to ring the area manager to explain why our tills weren't working and why we weren't taking any cash. Then, if the line never came on again, we had to use old fashioned manual receipts and take payment via copies of people's card like in the olden days - it takes forever and a lot of people aren't comfortable with it, so will just walk out.

Technology fails all the time. Often it's minor so you don't notice (or if you do, it doesn't affect you) but sometimes it does and it can be catastrophic. I always carry spare cash just in case.

I can’t remember the last time I used cash but I was saying to DH yesterday that it’s really strange to not have the option. I mean, you technically can still use it but I’ve seen people hand over cash and the person working at the checkout pause before handling it. It does seem like we’re being made to use card only.

To be honest, people like your parents shouldn’t have got to this stage being frightened of contactless; there’s no reason for their fear and they can budget better on card.

For me, budgetting is extremely difficult when spending on a card instead of the cash. Having the cash seems to make me not waste as much for some reason. Xmas I usually use maybe 300 quid or so. Last year I decided to do it on my card and ended up going way over that as..in a way it doesn't even seem like its 'real money'? I know that sounds weird as obviously it IS money but..my brain seems to not work quite so well with impulse control when I don't have to physically hand over cash.

As for those talking about drugs, bitcoin is what many use now for their hits anyway.

I cannot really see cash being totally outlawed, but I do think this covid thing has sped up a very big push towards card over cash. Smaller shops and such I don't think would manage well at all long term with card payments for small cost items, unless fees are gotten rid of which seems unlikely.

Paypal transfers are not really a bulletproof answer either. I would feel uncomfortable doing a bootsale and someone paying on paypal. Mainly as, I have had transactions reverse a few times over the years. Even one that was 'family and friends' which according to paypal cannot be reversed, which was the reason I asked for that option..alas, PP still refunded the scammer

Also, the past few years my bank keeps putting a block on my card if I have a day spending more than usual. I get that its trying to protect me but its bloody annoying, and embarassing too when it is refused when a queue is behind you.

@Graciebobcat

You can't get your cashless details on your mobile phone at weekends,some pending standing orders and DDs don't show up either

Yes you can. Change your bank, yours is rubbish.

I can see this, both my banks show transactions at the weekend. I even got paid on a bank holiday.

I'm all for getting rid of cash, time moves on and things change.
I use my watch to pay. The sooner we can pay by retina scan or a microchip under our skin the better. Having to carry physical things is so last year.

Badbad I saw a thing years ago about how while banks had a duty to provide a basic bank account, when 'mystery shoppers' tried they were not offered them. The banks don't make any money out of them so not surprising.

Not sure if the situation is still like that.

I'm amazed people are so keen to trust banks to do the right thing and not profiteer etc I thought they were one of the least trusted sectors in the country!

Then it's a business decision to move to a more reliable card processing firm, although it's more likely to have been a failure on the part of whichever employee was responsible for keeping the machine/software properly updated, i.e. user error rather than provider error.

We use the biggest and most established of providers but between reliance on their systems, phone systems, mobile networks, broadband and hardware etc there's still alot of steps there that can, and do, occasionally develop a problem that's outside of your control. Our shop has been completely without power before and we still managed to do about 1/2 our normal daily take in cash alone

Also most terminals are updated automatically by the provider, and most people with integrated systems would have a back office provider that ensured compliance. In all of the times that we've had card problems it has never once been user error, or the fault of our back office provider.

IME it's rarely the service provider at fault either, it's most commonly the infrastructure between you and them

@Nocaloriesinchocolate

Slightly off the point, but I realised yesterday that I am in danger of forgetting my pin number, since the Contactless limit has been raised to £45. I have made no purchases larger than that face-to-face since lockdown so have not needed my pin. I had to spend a few anxious minutes dragging it up from my memory. Anyone else find that?

Change it to something you won’t forget.

Children use cash to begin lear ing about money. They can save or spend thier pocket money, understanding that if they get £1 a week they can only spend that much, and that they can save it if they want something that costs £2.
Without this grounding, we will be letting ourselves in for a future of debt.
Kids dont understand card payments and dont have access to smart phones to check their balance, or smart watches to pay with.

I prefer card patents as I don’t like withdrawing £10 if I want to buy and item for £3. With card £7 is still in my bank. We went out yesterday to a small town and got fish and chips and an ice cream. We had £30 at the start of the day in cash, we still have £30 cash. You can’t give the stuff away.

[quote Notfeelinggreattoday]@sst1234 the person isnt reading into conspiracy theories they have stated exactly what a cashless society is
I.e no cash given to children for maybe doing odd jobs or grandma giving them a couple pounds
When systems go down no access to your money as no cash back up
If country was hit by a cyber attack would be very open if cashless society
Many places dont get good enough signals for cards constantly
Isnt it much better to have a choice ? [/quote]
Cash can be given to children or anyone through ball transfer at the click of button, as others have stated over and over and over again on this thread. It’s just done electronically. No one will stop grandma from doing it, promise.

You know that Apple Pay doesn’t rely on a signal, right?
*Other brands of electronic payment wallets are available

You know that Apple Pay doesn’t rely on a signal, right?

Lots of payment terminals have sim cards and connect to a mobile network

[quote ActuallyItsEugene]@sst1234 Ah your quick wit really made me chuckle.

Back in the real world, I do all of the above because I escaped an extremely abusive relationship and am terrified of being found and killed.
Don't let that get in the way of your assumptions though.[/quote]
So instead of fixing the root cause of your (horrendous) experience, we should just stop all progress?

I saw a list of reasons why it's a bad idea the other day. The one which really resonated with me was that, if there is a problem with your card, you are stuck.

I understand why cards have been preferable to cash during Covid but generally I like using both. Last year (or maybe the year before - who knows, time is whizzing by) at Gardeners World Live the Wifi went down at the NEC and no-one could pay by card for a few hours, caused absolute chaos and loads of pissed-off stall holders. Thankfully I always take cash to those events so that I know what my spending limit is, I think it's far easier to overspend with cards. I always have a bit of cash on me for emergencies.

And whereas before I'd shove a few coins in a charity tin I am never going to hand my bank details over to a stranger on the street but maybe I'm unusual.

I have been trying to get my mum a new cheque book.
They are no longer issued automatically and you either have to do it via online banking or telephone banking neither of which my mum uses.

I rang there help line and they couldn’t help as for some reason their system does bring up my mums date of birth although it shows her account but they can’t access it without her date of birth being one of the security questions.
The only thing they could offer is to take my mum into a branch with her Id to see if they could help.
My mum is in her 80’s disabled and has been housebound for a number of years so not a option. I am going to go in and speak to someone but after banking with the same bank for over 70 years it looks like We have hit a brick wall and if she can’t get her new cheque book then she will have to rely on cash only.

Proud I think a lot of organisations don't really give a toss about the elderly/vulnerable being left behind due to technology. My mum has to have regular blood tests for her cancer and the GP surgery has told her that she will have to start booking them online. My parents have never used a computer or smart phone in their lives and after a lot of huffing the receptionist agreed to do it that one time but in future my mum would have to ask a relative or neighbour to do it! Bugger privacy.

@sst1234 I am trying, believe me. It's much harder than you'd think, especially with COVID.

But I'm not talking about stalling progress, I was referring to my personal privacy measures(VPN, location services, SM...); which was the post you referred too.

I hardly ever use cash but I think it still has a place for certain transactions and for certain people.

A few years ago cheques were all set to disappear yet they're still around, for the same reason.

Not everyone can manage without cheques, and not everyone can manage without cash.

Although, personally, I haven't written a cheque for some years now.

If we have no cash how are things like the tooth fairy going to operate.

Not as much find finding notice of an electronic transfer under your pillow as a nice shiny £1 coin I imagine.

I think it was probably going to happen anyway, but covid has definitely accelerated it.

Doesn't bother me at all, though pp has made a good point about the tooth fairy 🤔

The only time I used cheques was when DM died and the solicitor sorting the probate wanted cheques for everything, I think it was because they weren’t for him but to give to third parties, when I did my payment to him it was by bank transfer. I had to wait ages for the cheque book to be delivered, and it took a bit of searching to find how to order one online, this was about 4 years ago so fairly recently.

I agree, it does seem like its going that way although I hope it doesn't.
I generally favour my card, and welcome the option of developments like Apple Pay - but I strongly believe we should retain cash as an option, as it allows for greater personal control of one's own money.

For the tooth fairy, it's easy. Simply make the modern day rite of passage for losing a first tooth being when a DC is given their first smartphone and then you can design an app to track their loss of first teeth 'journey' and also be a receiving account for virtual tooth fairy pound coins.

I'm being facetious of course, but you've got a million pound idea there, so if anyone manages to turn it into reality, please remember where you read it first .